Need Help/Advice about Protection Spells

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

eek Wow thanks! I'm learning so much from you guys. Just had to look up what a rootworker was xd since the page sort of just assumes you know and also what hoodoo was too sweatdrop

Learn a new thing every day!

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I'm willing to put in the effort to learn, I'm a little cautious and the only thing I'm worried about is doing something 'wrong' and having a negative effect from it.

Even people who know what they're doing have to deal with that.
You have to choose if you can accept the consequences of making mistakes or not- if not, then maybe focusing on non-magical means of dealing with this should be your focus.

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But I'm too suspicious of others to find someone on my own. I'm no longer in touch with my wiccan/pagan friends, so I don't have anyone I trust to recommend a professional.

It doesn't matter if you're dealing with people or books, or websites- having a good BS detector is important, and not just in paganism. cat_wink

But I don't think a BS detector and being suspicious are the same things- like, sifting through where someone's magical experiences begin and end and where their ego starts is different than not being willing to give someone a chance in the first place.  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

I thought 'love spells' weren't allowed because it would involve manipulating someone...

Not all of them do- and not all kinds of magic have the same ethical framework- so while some people are against bending other's will, other people don't have a problem with it.

Remember Hoodoo largely came out of slavery. If bending the Master's will so he doesn't beat you to death for fun is what it takes to save your life- you do it and live with the consequences.

Most of the love spells I know personally are about inviting love into your life. It's like how opening a door isn't the same as forcing someone through it.

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and 'wealth attraction' just seems a little too 'easy' and a bit of a scam.

My own wealth attraction work has done me and Annette really well. We used it to increase Annette's tips at work and it did a great job.

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and holy eek at 80 dollars an hour for readings the only wealth they'd be attracting would be to themselves rofl (Sorry I don't mean to offend anyone but come on 80 dollars an hour is a 150k yearly salary... more than what many of us can hope for in a wage)

If you work a solid 40 hour week- but if you're doing an hour reading only 5-10 times a week, you're just scraping by, so it's a huge assumption that they're making those kinds of wages.

If you're serve a spiritual community full time- that's all you do, you still have living expenses and stuff.  

[Erise Crewe]

I know I'll have to do my own research about spells 'going wrong' but what sort of consequences would I be looking at? Would you mind sharing some of your experiences (if any) about mistaken spell-casts or consequences that you've had to deal with? I guess it instills a certain amount of reverence among practitioners so that they don't take it too lightly xd  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

Maybe I'm wrong to be too picky but I absolutely could not trust someone who practiced things I consider to be 'unethical'

Good for you- but that doesn't mean there aren't workers out there who would work for you.

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including
-snipped links-

For the first one- given how the Law treats minorities, you should really evaluate if it's unethical or not to use magic to keep an innocent from being railroaded.

There are parts of the US where being Black and Poor means you have a 1 in 5 chance of being in trouble with the law, and being white and rich means you get diversion if they prosecute at all.

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Especially when I know it's only for money. (Alright I know that they say they have to do a divination about the relationship first, but I just don't think it's right since the starting motivation is cash)

Could you please not say what their motivation is for them? It's really rude to set up your personal opinions as theirs, then tear them down for it.

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I have a friend who is in an abusive relationship and I would love more than nothing to get them to break up, but if I had the knowledge/power to cast such spells I absolutely would not be offering them to just anyone 'at the right price'.

Yeah, this has gone from being an interesting conversation to being a lesson in projection.

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Even then I don't think a breakup spell would be the best thing. They argue a lot as it is, and when they do she always ends up hurt. I would rather find a way for her to see that he's abusing her, and that it's wrong. Maybe help her find her true love rather than focusing on the breakup.

The spell descriptions talk about the end result, not the means. Either of those things could happen to manifest the spell.  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

I know I'll have to do my own research about spells 'going wrong' but what sort of consequences would I be looking at? Would you mind sharing some of your experiences (if any) about mistaken spell-casts or consequences that you've had to deal with? I guess it instills a certain amount of reverence among practitioners so that they don't take it too lightly xd

The details of a lot of this stuff aren't really for people outside of the target group- for Annette, the consequences for the increased tips were that they were more tired at the end of the day from the extra work.

Everything has consequences- love spells mean you have to put the time, effort, money etc into the relationship.
Prosperity means you have to be willing to do the work for the money.  

[Erise Crewe]

Haha sorry, like I said I tend to be distrustful. I just think that anything done with a price (that is more than the base cost) is done with an ulterior motive. It's human nature to be greedy and there aren't many people who can let go of material wealth. I didn't mean to specifically accuse any one person of it. I don't know if it's a flaw in my personality or just myself being cautious i tend to think the worst of people until I get to know them a little.

But yes, thanks for clarifying that for me about the tips and wealth attraction, I had mistakenly thought that people would use it to try to win the lotto or gambling as the main goal. (on the website there were a few testimonials about lotto-related spell casting) xd I've always tipped somewhat generously I'm glad to hear that she's doing well.  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

Haha sorry, like I said I tend to be distrustful.

That goes beyond distrustful- when you start making up stories about why other people do things just to attack them- it's less a matter of distrust and more a matter of paranoia.

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I just think that anything done with a price (that is more than the base cost) is done with an ulterior motive.

I think that's BS. I want to live in a nice house, raise a family, keep my lovers happy, spend time with friends doing fun things. Not all of that has to be expensive, but I still need to pay my bills. We're not in a communist state- at best we're a socialist state that rewards those who work above and beyond the minimum for that extra effort.

Are you going to sacrifice your shelter, food and other things it takes to live to share with anyone who needs it? I doubt it. I know I sure don't. If I work harder than everyone else, I deserve more than the minimum for that work.

If the "ulterior motive" is NOT STARVING TO DEATH, then pay the people. stare

Do you work for free? Or just for the gas it costs to get to work? Hell no. But you expect other people to? Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite?

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It's human nature to be greedy and there aren't many people who can let go of material wealth.

I think you're back to projecting. There are lots of people who are downwardly mobile in order to support causes they believe in. Just because you're one way doesn't mean everyone else is.

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I didn't mean to specifically accuse any one person of it. I don't know if it's a flaw in my personality or just myself being cautious i tend to think the worst of people until I get to know them a little.

I'd call that a personality flaw. There's no reason to put someone on a throne, but there's no reason to throw them in the mud either.

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But yes, thanks for clarifying that for me about the tips and wealth attraction, I had mistakenly thought that people would use it to try to win the lotto or gambling as the main goal.

What if they do? Just because you can't make a living at it doesn't mean Chris Ferguson or Annie Duke shouldn't.

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(on the website there were a few testimonials about lotto-related spell casting)

Good for them- there is more than one way to be wealthy, if that's how they got where they needed to be, that's ok.  

[oOGarrettOo]

Keep in mind that witchcraft is a very personal thing. Yeah, you have classes and crap to take now, but once-upon-a-time it was a tradition sort of thing. Spells, charms, etc. were created out of necessity, to serve a particular purpose to the time and location. So what one person would look at as "immoral" and "wrong", another would look at as necessary to survive or make ends meet. I begrudge no one the spells they feel the need to cast unless I know for a fact they're just being an idiot and putzing around for shits and giggles. But even then, if they do something wrong, or the person they've cast the spell against realizes what's happened, I won't step in unless I'm asked.

Story time!

My family (about four or five generations back) lived in Italy. I'm not sure exactly where. I don't remember and neither does my mom. It was northern Italy, that's all we really know.

Anyway, my Aunt (my greatgran's aunt) was a witch. Strega. She was who people went to if they needed something they couldn't get anywhere else. Granted, this was before the church really started to scare people, but still.

I remember a story my gran told me, of this couple my aunt saw. They insisted this other family did some horrible something against them and they wanted a curse. They traded something and my aunt gave them their curse/hex. Well, a few days later, the family for which the couple had seen her about went to her and asked for a protection spell against curses. They traded and my aunt gave them their spell.

Would I do the same? Probably.

I'll probably get a lot of flak for this, but this is how I see it. I cast my spells for my self and I do it responsibly, I look at all the angles, think about all the outcomes and consequences, especially for the larger spells. I am responsible for my spells and my actions.

If someone comes to me asking for a spell and offers me x to do it, I will. I will give them a lesson, show them what could happen, explain to them what they're asking for so that they hear it differently and can understand what it is they want, and let them think about the consequences of the spell. When I give it to them, I relinquish responsibility. They have to cast it, they have to choose to let it do what they want it for. It's all theirs now. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

People can come to me for whatever they want, but they have to be willing to pay the price, and I make sure they understand that. If they don't want to hear it and they fool themselves into thinking it'll all work out just as they want it, that there aren't consequences because it's magic and magic isn't real anyway, then they've willingly allowed themselves to suffer if that what it comes down to.

I'm trying to decide again where I was going with this since I was interrupted. I guess it was the whole "immoral" thing that ticked me off, as it usually does. I have my limits, but I'm not going to begrudge another witch theirs if they're a studied witch and know what they're doing. I won't give someone a love spell unless the price is seriously right. Doesn't mean I'll think less of another witch for doing it for less.  

[HorsesOfTheNight]

Begin rant:
I am a little confused. Why do you think that people should not perform spells or readings for money? I understand that there are people who are fakes and will scam people for money. However, there are people who are legitimate and selling spells and doing readings is their livelihood.

I love environmental science/geology and I am good at the jobs I do as an environmental scientist/geologist. Am I a bad person b/c I monitor the water quality of streams for money? I really need money, and not for things such as jewelry or electronics. I need money for things such as gas for my car, food, textbooks, and tuition. I guess what I am trying to say is that people need to work and make money. Some people sell spells and do readings to make money so that they can pay the bills.

I guess I could get a sugar daddy to pay for my stuff. A very attractive sugar daddy…because I have standards. ninja

End rant  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I think it's twofold. Part of it comes from the Wiccan law "do not charge for the Mysteries" sort of filtering itself through the Neo-Pagan consciousness, and part of it is the large number of people who do just take people's money and do nothing with it. I mean there's doing a reading, and then there's pulling cards and just saying whatever. One is a lot easier than the other. Other people will take the money, say they've done the spell and actually do nothing. I mean how will they know?

Because of the sort of thing spellwork and readings are, it's not something you can check. I mean if you do your water monitoring, I know I can go down there and you'll be there sorting stuff out. I think the issue is much less someone doing the work and getting paid for it, and more people not doing the work at all. Of course there are plenty of people who are honest but the people who are conning others taint the whole batch and the whole concept of readings and spells for money.

With the high number of hacks and scammers out there - or at least the perception of that high number - I think it's only natural to view the charging of money with some suspicion. Trading I think is a different kettle of fish; if someone asked you to bring something baked or something you no longer needed or wanted, or something you had made yourself, that sort of thing, rather than money, people would look at that with much less suspicion.

Along these lines, I automatically assume any psychic or medium on TV is a liar and a fraud.  

[Erise Crewe]

HorsesOfTheNight

Begin rant:
I am a little confused. Why do you think that people should not perform spells or readings for money? I understand that there are people who are fakes and will scam people for money. However, there are people who are legitimate and selling spells and doing readings is their livelihood.

I love environmental science/geology and I am good at the jobs I do as an environmental scientist/geologist. Am I a bad person b/c I monitor the water quality of streams for money? I really need money, and not for things such as jewelry or electronics. I need money for things such as gas for my car, food, textbooks, and tuition. I guess what I am trying to say is that people need to work and make money. Some people sell spells and do readings to make money so that they can pay the bills.

I guess I could get a sugar daddy to pay for my stuff. A very attractive sugar daddy…because I have standards. ninja

End rant

I didn't mean that people shouldn't charge for money. I just tend to be suspicious of people who do, or paranoid as Esiris said haha. It just feels like there's a lot of profit without base cost for this case. Honestly I was thinking about it earlier, therapists charge a lot for visits- but they have to rent an office space they can't do it from their own home, they have tens of thousands of dollars and years in university that they have to spend plus licensing fees.

I'm not going to pretend that I know what psychics or rootworkers have to do to get licensed, nor do I know how much their practice costs them. I'm just saying I personally would not cast a curse under any circumstance and it seems wrong to me that someone would do so for profit. Because to me, it would be 'for profit' if it were for a stranger who is paying you. That's just how I define for profit, and how I feel about it. I'm not saying that I have any right to stop these people from doing what they do, it's just that there's such a high potential for dishonesty/scamming in this field. I think more than others.

Esiris, I have my personal opinions about some things. I know I can be paranoid xd or just flat out am, but I think I've seen more bad in people than good. I consider myself a giving person, and not materialistic. I think gambling as a living isn't a very honorable way to live/work. It's not something I would do, but it doesn't mean that I look down on people who do it. For example, I respect that these people (if they're legit) what I would consider to be a gift. I respect that professional poker players have incredible math skills. I did not mean to drag anyone through the mud as you put it.

Garrett, Thank you for sharing your story about your great grandaunt. It was enlightening/entertaining. And no, I wouldn't give you flak for something you were so open about and I'm not very judgmental haha. When you put it like that I don't blame your aunt either, especially when there's education involved and consequences were explained. To each their own, hypothetically I absolutely would not have cast a curse for them. There is already too much negativity in the world for me to want to be a part of creating more. I feel like no matter how much you explain the consequences to someone, they'll still begin to regret it once they begin to experience it. Like it's easier to agree to pain/discomfort/misfortune that one would perceive to be in the distant future. I apologize if I upset you, when i say immoral I don't mean that other people shouldn't do it, it just goes against my belief system. Maybe I should be using another term for it? But thank you for your advice and experiences.