Welcome to Gaia! ::

Japanese Academy

Back to Guilds

A virtual classroom where beginners can learn to read and write Japanese. New students welcome! 

Tags: Japanese, Academy, Japan, Learn, School 

Reply Japanese Academy
Verb -> Noun Changes and Comparisons?

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Deity Psymon

Newbie Noob

17,075 Points
  • Alchemy Level 10 100
  • Perfect Attendance 400
  • Conventioneer 300
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:36 pm
I was hoping if I could get clarification on a few things. So, when you have a verb part of a sentence and you need to connect it to further parts in the sentence, you can do something like tenisu o miru no ______. There are also situations where you would have the same thing, but tenisu o koto ______. What's the difference when no is used as opposed to koto? I had an explanation where the version that uses no can only be used in certain parts of the sentence, but it was vague.

Secondly, comparisons using nohou and yori. I have an example that uses elements of this and the above topic, so I'll use that.

Tenisu o suru no to miru no to dochira no hou ga suki desu ka?
Watashi wa, suru hou ga miru yori suki desu. Tanaka-san?
Watashi wa, suru no mo miru no mo amari suki ja arimasen.

Now, I know the meaning of the phrases, but for one, you see miru no or suru no, but never miru koto or suru koto in these sentences. Secondly, this is the first situation in which I've seen a phrase say hou instead of no hou. Again, why is it no in these sentences and never koto, and why is the no sometimes dropped from the "no hou" phrase?

Hopefully those two questions make sense xD  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:57 pm
"no" and "koto" are both used to nominalize a verb. They are somewhat interchangeable, and either one can be used in your example sentences, although you don't necessarily need either.

Tenisu wo suru koto to miru koto to dochira no hou ga suki? (use "koto")
テニスをすることと見ることとどちらの方が好き?
Watashi wa suru no hou ga miru yori suki da. Tanaka-san? (use neither)
私はするの方が見るより好きだ。田中さんは?
Watashi wa suru no mo miru no mo amari suki ja nai. (use "no")
私はするのも見るのもあまり好きじゃない。

There are some corner cases where one is more appropriate than another. For potential (ex "I can swim"), "koto" is preferred.
Boku wa oyogu koto ga dekiru.
僕は泳ぐことができる。
This is rather formal, though, and in conversation you would just change the verb to potential form rather than add "koto" to it.
Boku wa oyogeru.
僕は泳げる。

"Koto" is also used to talk about an experience. "[past verb] koto ga aru" means "I have done [verb] before."
I've never spoken to him before.
Kare to hanashita koto ga nai.
彼と話したことがない。
When describing your ability at something ("I'm good at driving") you'll usually nominalize with "no".
Boku wa unten suru no ga jouzu da.
僕は運転するのが上手だ。

Aside from set phrases and corner cases, it's just a matter of feeling out when it's better to use one or the other, and relies a lot on preference and formality ("koto" tends to be more formal than "no").

Hopefully this clears it up a bit for you; if you have any more questions please ask.  

Silverfin


Deity Psymon

Newbie Noob

17,075 Points
  • Alchemy Level 10 100
  • Perfect Attendance 400
  • Conventioneer 300
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:47 pm
Silverfin
"no" and "koto" are both used to nominalize a verb. They are somewhat interchangeable, and either one can be used in your example sentences, although you don't necessarily need either.

Tenisu wo suru koto to miru koto to dochira no hou ga suki? (use "koto")
テニスをすることと見ることとどちらの方が好き?
Watashi wa suru no hou ga miru yori suki da. Tanaka-san? (use neither)
私はするの方が見るより好きだ。田中さんは?
Watashi wa suru no mo miru no mo amari suki ja nai. (use "no")
私はするのも見るのもあまり好きじゃない。

There are some corner cases where one is more appropriate than another. For potential (ex "I can swim"), "koto" is preferred.
Boku wa oyogu koto ga dekiru.
僕は泳ぐことができる。
This is rather formal, though, and in conversation you would just change the verb to potential form rather than add "koto" to it.
Boku wa oyogeru.
僕は泳げる。

"Koto" is also used to talk about an experience. "[past verb] koto ga aru" means "I have done [verb] before."
I've never spoken to him before.
Kare to hanashita koto ga nai.
彼と話したことがない。
When describing your ability at something ("I'm good at driving") you'll usually nominalize with "no".
Boku wa unten suru no ga jouzu da.
僕は運転するのが上手だ。

Aside from set phrases and corner cases, it's just a matter of feeling out when it's better to use one or the other, and relies a lot on preference and formality ("koto" tends to be more formal than "no").

Hopefully this clears it up a bit for you; if you have any more questions please ask.


So in terms of the first 3 sentences, what was the difference to use koto, no, or neither?  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:51 pm
Deity Psymon
So in terms of the first 3 sentences, what was the difference to use koto, no, or neither?
Mostly preference. I just used each one once to illustrate the example.
In terms of frequency, most of the time you'd use neither, at least in casual conversation. "No" seems a bit out of place, so if you're going to use one, I'd lean towards "koto."  

Silverfin


Deity Psymon

Newbie Noob

17,075 Points
  • Alchemy Level 10 100
  • Perfect Attendance 400
  • Conventioneer 300
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:27 pm
Silverfin
Deity Psymon
So in terms of the first 3 sentences, what was the difference to use koto, no, or neither?
Mostly preference. I just used each one once to illustrate the example.
In terms of frequency, most of the time you'd use neither, at least in casual conversation. "No" seems a bit out of place, so if you're going to use one, I'd lean towards "koto."


Alright. And I also noticed you kept the no before hou ga. Is having the no before hou ga also preference or corner cases?  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:30 pm
Deity Psymon
Silverfin
Deity Psymon
So in terms of the first 3 sentences, what was the difference to use koto, no, or neither?
Mostly preference. I just used each one once to illustrate the example.
In terms of frequency, most of the time you'd use neither, at least in casual conversation. "No" seems a bit out of place, so if you're going to use one, I'd lean towards "koto."


Alright. And I also noticed you kept the no before hou ga. Is having the no before hou ga also preference or corner cases?

You always use "no" before "hou" in those kinds of sentences. "Hou" means literally "direction," so the possessive "no" is used to clarify what you're talking about.  

Silverfin


Deity Psymon

Newbie Noob

17,075 Points
  • Alchemy Level 10 100
  • Perfect Attendance 400
  • Conventioneer 300
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:39 pm
Silverfin
Deity Psymon
Silverfin
Deity Psymon
So in terms of the first 3 sentences, what was the difference to use koto, no, or neither?
Mostly preference. I just used each one once to illustrate the example.
In terms of frequency, most of the time you'd use neither, at least in casual conversation. "No" seems a bit out of place, so if you're going to use one, I'd lean towards "koto."


Alright. And I also noticed you kept the no before hou ga. Is having the no before hou ga also preference or corner cases?

You always use "no" before "hou" in those kinds of sentences. "Hou" means literally "direction," so the possessive "no" is used to clarify what you're talking about.


Ah, okay. Thanks then ^_^ I'm sure I'll eventually have another question xD  
Reply
Japanese Academy

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum