However, I have never tried to really grow closer and find a personal relationship with God. I'm a programmer and a man of logic so through apologetics I was able to really affirm my belief and begin truly following God. I finally sat down and began studying and meditating upon the Scriptures. Now with that little bit of background out of the way let me explain the title of this thread.
I've found that the Christian community is terrible. With people of the church arguing about ridiculous (denominations) things and people explaining the way in which they 'interpret' the bible..it's mind numbing. It seems to me two things are happening.
1.) Christians are interpreting the bible in a way that is convenient to them and their beliefs.
2.) Christians are choosing to listen to people they hear without doing research for themselves.
I just saw an argument on end-time prophecy where Billy Bob was presenting an argument that a specific word was translated incorrectly. And highly respected theologians, historians and scholars have been wrong for hundreds of years... And many Christians were on his side and believing him. Let me explain why I have a problem with this.
Are you to tell me that you'd rather believe this random guy with no educational background, who spent an hour researching and has no understanding of the Greek language over a team of scholars who's lives was dedicated to linguistics? I can't believe it. And sure, he could be right, but how could anyone believe something like this without proper research of their own?
Why in 2017 are we arguing about the Torah? Why is there confusion upon baptism? Why is there confusion on salvation by works or grace? Why are there 4 or 5 different views on the rapture? Why does God allow the defilement of his Word?Why does God write his book in a way that confuses people?
I am not at a level in my walk with Christ where I have developed enough self control to be able to handle being in the presence of such nonsense. I have been completely taken over and believe I am on fire for God. I've spent 10+ hours a day buried in my bible and when I see this ignorance I am not able to handle it. I can feel the anger crawl up my body and I hate these feelings. The worst part is I cannot do anything about it. People don't change, hell, people don't want to change. They want to believe what's convenient to believe rather than what the Word of the Most High God says. I feel as if this faith will be the end of me.
I need your prayers. Pray for my anger. Pray for a quickening maturity in my walk with God. I honestly find Paul's teaching on loving our brothers and sisters the hardest aspect of Christianity right now, because, though I hate to say it, I'm starting to hate Christians.
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:26 am
I have also dealt with difficult Christians. People who interpret God's word their way and look down on anyone who thinks differently. This is one of the reasons I no longer belong to a specific Christian denomination, the structure of organized religion can be exhausting and annoying. I try to do my best to understand 1st century Jewish Christianity as Christ and the apostles meant it to be. If you're feeling angry, my advice would be to leave people for God to deal with and let go of any animosity. We don't need to trouble ourselves with worrying or getting angry over the way others live. Remember what was said about people in the last days:
Quote:
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth
2 Timothy 3:2-7
Lady Vizsla
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:23 pm
edited: to fix grammar & clarify diction
Friendly Bard
Well, both Jesus and Paul dealt with the same thing in their day within the believing community: people claimed to believe in YHWH but were denying (or were ignorant/unaware of) certain parts of Scripture (the Law, the Prophets, the Writings), which affects their reasoning. And all this before anyone was called a Christian and before any of the apostles' writings were canon; so, this phenomenon is not going to change for us either. Same mankind, same attitudes, same problems. Some search the Scriptures thoroughly, while others don't.
Of those who search them, some (whether purposely or not—because of Satan's devices and/or their own flesh) allow certain prejudices/prejudgments/preconceived notions of their own mind, someone else's, or their own sects, to color how they read the text (blinding them to certain details); while others who search the text (thoroughly or not) don't have those impediments when they read, but acknowledge everything the verse is saying.
Of those who don't search the Scriptures, assuming what they're hearing is Biblical and not some meme that gets associated with God but is grossly distorted, they merely accept popular interpretations that were given to them / heard of by them, interpretations that may not have taken into account all the verses of the text that relate to the matter (nor all the details in a single verse or all the details said by the person who wrote that verse).
Again, how much of YHWH's Scripture you accept and are aware of affects how you reason. Ergo, disagreements, divisions, sectarianism, siding with men (and institutions of men) over the Most High.
Verses concerning all of the above:
Acts 11:26 (NIV)
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
John 4:22 (NIV)
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Matthew 22:29 (NIV)
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
Matthew 16:6 (NIV)
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
Matthew 16:12 (NIV)
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Sadducees, Pharisees, many a sect ignore aspects of the Law and the Prophets of YHWH (and these sects have studied and have been teachers of the law for millenia), and yet wound up at erroneous conclusions (and they knew their Hebrew and their Greek). They base their premises on what appears right to them (and what has been traditionally taught in their sect), over and above what YHWH had revealed, His every Word.
Matthew 15:1-3 (NIV)
15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
Same occurs in what could be identified as "Christian" circles ("Christian" because they claim to believe in Jesus as the Messiah/Christ, and follow His interpretations of Torah, the prophets, and the writings, or at least that is what they should be doing, based on how Jesus opened the minds of the apostles [and ours too according to the same Jesus'/YHWH-incarnate's understanding]):
Luke 24:44-45 (NIV)
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
1 Corinthians 1:10 (NIV)
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 1:10 The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family; also in verses 11 and 26; and in 2:1; 3:1; 4:6; 6:8; 7:24, 29; 10:1; 11:33; 12:1; 14:6, 20, 26, 39; 15:1, 6, 50, 58; 16:15, 20.
1 Corinthians 11:17-19 (NIV)
17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.
But again not unique to those who believe in Jesus/YHWH-incarnate as the Messiah (as we saw with the Pharisees and Sadducees claiming to believe in YHWH while denying what He said).
Part of the problem is the sinful nature: laziness (not willing to put in the effort to get to know God's Word or not even willing to pray for understanding as you go about perusing the text, nor having the patience to wait for the answer in response to your prayers, in order to receive understanding—it may take hours, days, weeks, months, years), or pride (not willing to admit that someone is wrong—whether self or someone else whom you admire or whom is admired/held in high esteem by the believing community).
But even when the people deviate, we're to still continue walking in the truth and building them up (like King Jotham did [I love the meaning of his name by the way: Jotham → Yotham → YHWH + tam → thus YHWH is perfect/complete/without defect/blameless]), even when the rest of the people deny it. And we're to care for them (this is not unique to what the Holy Spirit said through Paul's writings; as I was reminded of today in my daily chapter [6/6/2017]):
2 Chronicles 27:1-4 (NIV)
27 Jotham was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. His mother’s name was Jerusha daughter of Zadok. 2 He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, just as his father Uzziah had done, but unlike him he did not enter the temple of the Lord. The people, however, continued their corrupt practices. 3 Jotham rebuilt the Upper Gate of the temple of the Lord and did extensive work on the wall at the hill of Ophel. 4 He built towns in the hill country of Judah and forts and towers in the wooded areas.
Despite the people being corrupt, he's still guarding, protecting, them, fortifying them against any enemies. Caring for their survival, their very life (and in doing so he protects himself too). In Spirit, we're to still build up the defensive arguments to defend the truth of the Most High, His religion, for their benefit too, not just our own.
Likewise:
Ephesians 4:11-14 (NIV)
11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
"Until we reach unity in the faith" suggests that they weren't even unified in the day of Jesus' apostles. Clearly, they weren't unified before Jesus' day, during Jesus' day as He walked the earth in His unique incarnation entering the world through a woman's womb; nor after Jesus died, resurrected on the third day back to life on earth, ascended into the clouds 40 days later, and we're still not 100% unified today—though we're making great strides. Those called out from the world, who set themselves apart to serve YHWH, to be holy as He is holy, still have a lot of work to do. There are sinful divisions that happen, which show which ones have God's approval and which ones don't. The more of the text (and the more of the Commands) that people deny, the further away we are from achieving that unity/cohesion of mind, achieving peace amongst ourselves, without argument amongst ourselves (because at that point we're without deviance and with one accord in sound/good doctrine).
Psalm 119:165 (NIV)
165 Great peace have those who love your law, and nothing can make them stumble.
Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
1 Timothy 4:1 (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Peter 2:1 (NIV)
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Timothy 4:2-3 (NIV)
2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Though they have personal responsibility for rejecting the truth, let's also remember the first human pair, Adam and Eve. Before their sin, we would only have had to be aware of one thing (not to eat from a particular tree: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil), which says to me that we would naturally be walking in the Law of YHWH as our first nature, having sufficient discernment for when to apply a Command and when not to, by instinct, like the rest of creation. But no, now we have to reason for ourselves and we burden our minds trying to reason so much and thus be defended against the lies.
I don't think that His Word is hard to understand, especially with the Holy Spirit giving understanding. It's just that people gloss over details or don't have all of the details in the forefront of their minds when they reason. Not remembering, but forgetting/rejecting is part of the problem.
Deuteronomy 4:23 (NIV)
23 Be careful not to forget the covenant of the Lord your God that he made with you; do not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything the Lord your God has forbidden.
Judges 8:33-34 (NIV)
33 No sooner had Gideon died than the Israelites again prostituted themselves to the Baals. They set up Baal-Berith as their god 34 and did not remember the Lord their God, who had rescued them from the hands of all their enemies on every side.
John 14:26 (NIV)
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Ezekiel 36:27 (NIV)
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
In order to remember what He says, however, you must first know what He says.
Also: His Ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV)
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
And two things as it relates to that:
[1] Revealing enough to keep us safe if we trust it, but not enough that we may be able to convince man with reasoning alone, is a test of loyalty and faith. Do we trust Him? or man's own reasoning apart from and/or above God's Word?
[2] for YHWH to articulate—in words that we can understand—every possible scenario, when to apply a Law and when not to, to the level of fairness that He would view a specific circumstance, would take up too much writing (and the Bible is long enough as it is already and people don't even read that). That's why we need to know the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings, and the Holy Spirit telling us how to apply it—in Spirit and Truth—in that specific circumstance/situation considering all of the circumstance's/situation's conditions, or how not to apply the Command (and decide not to apply it in the lawful-to-YHWH's-Law-way) in light of all that.
For example, you deliberately choosing to not partake in the prophetic, symbolic ritual if doing so would mis-communicate something to the other person who holds wrong beliefs, all the more because you are already doing what it prophetically represented by the shadow so there's no need to endanger leaving others in false beliefs by their misinterpretation of what you unnecessarily are deciding to do i.e. circumcision (of a literal p***s). If people think that getting circumcised (the physical cutting away of flesh) is what saves them from the sinful nature of their flesh, and not their belief in Christ and Christ Himself delivering them from that sinful nature through His Spirit, then that's when you decide not to get circumcised literally, even though it's the Law and there may be fleshly benefits to doing so (because nothing God commanded, in the physical, is bad, but good). But their belief that the physical circumcision that YHWH Commanded, which wasn't actually given by Moses but through Abraham and before, is what saves them period, is erroneous (quoting from Genesis for context before I get to why):
Relevant verses:
Genesis 17:1 (KJV)
17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Genesis 17:10-14 (NIV)
10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
John 7:22 (NIV)
22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath.
Acts 15:1 (NIV)
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
Colossians 2:11 (NIV)
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ,
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 2:11 In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit; also in verse 13.
b. Colossians 2:11 Or put off in the circumcision of
Galatians 5:19-25 (NIV)
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Galatians 2:3 (NIV)
3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.
The significance of the shadow: men getting circumcised in the literal flesh, depending on the study you read, apparently inhibits sexual stimulation to some extent (not fully, however, in contrast to female genital mutilation/"female circumcision" the latter of which is never Commanded by YHWH. But regardless, male circumcision, inhibits sexual stimulation a bit);
Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:
This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102
Does Circumcision Reduce p***s Sensitivity? The Answer Is Not Clear Cut
[...]
What did the researchers discover? According to a typical headline from the past few days:
“Circumcision does not reduce p***s sensitivity.”
But that’s not what the study showed. Before we get into the details of the science, and looking just at this claim from the “headline” conclusion, it might be helpful to review some basic anatomy.
[...]
Let me just repeat this: for the one test the researchers used that measured actual tactile sensitivity (which is what most people think of when they hear the word “sensitive” in this context), they found that the foreskin was more sensitive than any other part of the p***s, including all parts of the p***s that remain in circumcised men.
...thus, the Biblical circumcision commanded by YHWH on males, not just literally, but also symbolically communicates this idea of bringing the body's sexual appetites into submission, submitted to YHWH's Way, not about walking in totally unrestrained fleshly lusts, but submitting their use to be enjoyed in His Way, whose Way is safe and beneficial.
For the record, there are other benefits to circumcision besides inhibiting sexual stimulation to some extent:
The health benefits of infant male circumcision exceed the risks by over 100 to 1, according to a new study just published online in Mayo Clinic Proceedings.
Dr. Brian Morris, Professor Emeritus in the School of Medical Sciences at the University of Sydney, and his colleagues in the United States found that over their lifetime, half of uncircumcised males will contract an adverse medical condition caused by their foreskin.
The findings add considerable weight to the latest American Academy of Pediatrics policy that supports education and access for infant male circumcision.
The Truth about Uncircumcised p***s and Its Hygiene
The main advantage of circumcised penises over uncircumcised ones is that they are much easier to clean. But those who are advocates of the uncut should not be put down. The task is not difficult, but many men become too lazy to clean the area underneath the foreskin. Washing the area is not an arduous job as it only requires the following steps:
1. Pull the foreskin back. 2. Clean the area beneath the foreskin. 3. Use water and mild soap. 4. Rinse and dry. 5. Pull the foreskin back into its original place.
The steps are quite easy that parents should start teaching their children at an early age.
With the hygiene question aside, are there any more drawbacks if you have an uncircumcised p***s? Unfortunately, the answer to this is yes. Here are some of them:
UTI
Men who have chosen not to go with the cut route are more likely to acquire infections, particularly urinary tract infections or UTI. But there’s good news: the chance of getting the infection is incredibly low. This is therefore not an enough reason to choose to be circumcised.
Foreskin Infection
Having an uncircumcised p***s also exposes you to some risks, including getting the foreskin to become infection. However, if you have good hygiene and you follow the steps above for cleaning your p***s, this should not be a problem at all.
But just because you get circumcised (in the flesh) doesn't mean you avoid being sexually immoral (or unclean, literally or in thought). And if a person avoids being sexually immoral and unclean without getting circumcised, then there's no need to get circumcised. The sign that you follow YHWH is that you don't commit the sexual immorality (and other fleshly sins) you were once enslaved to, but now exhibit the self-control of YHWH, in body and mind. Flesh brought into submission.
Hence, Paul calling them out on their hypocrisy (note: I'll include Philippians which provides context for the passage in Galatians, Paul identifying himself as a former Pharisee, thus as one of the ones in the sect of the Pharisees who once preached circumcision [of the literal flesh] in order to get saved, and yet now associates with the other kind of circumcision done in Christ as the one that saves):
Philippians 3:1-7 (NIV)
3 Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
Galatians 5:11-12 (NIV)
11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
The only way these guys—preaching circumcision of the literal flesh to get saved—will be avoiding sexual immorality, according to Paul, is if they literally castrate themselves or in Spirit, its [circumcision's] fulfillment, allow Christ to cut off the sinful nature of their flesh. Either way, they weren't going all the way in getting rid of sexual immorality (and other fleshly sins) from within themselves.
But again, not that it's sinful to get circumcised if you believe in Christ because Paul circumcises Timothy (and it's not mere circumcision of the flesh that is a rejection of Christ, but getting circumcised to be justified):
Acts 16:1-3 (NIV)
16 Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
Galatians 5:2-4 (NIV)
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
The reason why this example of circumcision was even on my mind was in response to watching a video about a feminist becoming an ex-feminist upon listening to the injustices Male Rights Activists were bringing up. And though I heard nothing wrong with some of those injustices they bring up (less resources available for abused men by their wives, unjust accusations of rape made by a woman and the bias against the man, etc), those "Male Rights Activists" are trying to get rid of male circumcision altogether, labeling it a human's rights issue, as a practice that must be fought against (which they call, "male genital mutilation" trying to equate it with female genital mutilation) which led me to read this article, presenting the ethical arguments from both sides of the male circumcision argument (and as it relates to the problem of female genital mutilation [FGM]): https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/05/male-circumcision-vs-female-circumcision/392732/
And I also link to it because there were some more interesting benefits of circumcision that I didn't consider and wasn't aware of.
And applying YHWH's Wisdom to the FGM problem: just like one should avoid circumcision when it can communicate the wrong thing to a Pharisee, likewise, when a community is so entrenched in the practice of female genital mutilation / female circumcision (which YHWH never Commanded on the literal, physiological, female body), in order to get them to stop doing it to females in their country, it's best to avoid getting their males circumcised in their community as well (while educating them on female genital mutilation and why it's wrong) because they link the two as equally fine to do (I'm not saying that male circumcision is bad, contrary to how the author of the article insinuated by the end of the article; being secular/an unbeliever in YHWH, he arrived at a different conclusions).
That community practicing female genital mutilation needs to be converted to Christ and submitted to what the Father/Son says is right. Because had they been submitted to YHWH, to everything His Law says, they would have never done female circumcision, and yet, at the same time, whatever benefits circumcision provides to males doesn't need to be withheld from them either. YHWH's Law is fair and balanced, hence:
Deuteronomy 4:2 (NIV)
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.
1 Timothy 1:8 (NIV)
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
And obviously, even in YHWH's rituals, He is cementing the fact that the male is different from female. We're not meant to be identical.
In order for people to use the Law properly or lawfully, however, they need to know it fully and have the Holy Spirit help them to apply it in Spirit and in Truth, out of care for people, and know when not to apply it in Spirit and Truth, in a specific circumstance, to deal with the obstinate minds of others, not that certain Laws of YHWH are no longer relevant as long as corrupt human minds, this corrupt earth and these corrupt heavens stand.
Thus why the flip side is true: when people start thinking you're saying, "do away with the Law of Moses" you obey it right in front of their eyes:
Acts 21:20-26 (NIV)
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.
P.S. - this head shaving with its offering is the Nazirite Vow described in Numbers 6. Paul obeyed it, animal sacrifices and all, even though Jesus died once and for all, as our sin offering. Why? Because there's still a benefit to these things: at the very least, what they demonstrate in symbol, though many have practical, physical safety/health elements about them (like circumcision). Nothing YHWH Commanded in the Law and the Prophets is being done away with (only mankind's self-imposed customs not found in the Torah that nullify what YHWH says).
In contrast, there are details in the Law of YHWH itself, as He communicated through Moses, that restrict us from obeying / applying certain Commands when all the conditions aren't met (e.g. no literal temple [no literal animal sacrifices], no Sanhedrin [no stoning to death], no being inside of the Promised Land [no Pentecost a.k.a. Feast of Weeks a.k.a. Shavuot observance], etc, etc)
The people of YHWH who are called out from the world, whatever label it is that the world calls us, cannot afford to be an uneducated people. We need to know how to how read, we need to have patience, we need to pray for understanding, and acknowledge—not try to reason away, nor disagree with, but accept—every Word that comes out of the Mouth of God and live by it, with discernment from God for how to (or how not to) apply it depending on what we're facing (and the details of the Commands themselves).
Matthew 4:4 (NIV)
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[a]”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 4:4 Deut. 8:3
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Footnotes:
a. 2 Timothy 3:17 Or that you, a man of God,
Based on what you said, I'm not sure if you reached the same conclusions, but on that note, I'll just leave this here in case you or someone else has not brushed with it (for the verses contained in it) yet: [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored] because the New Testament is most definitely not teaching Lawlessness (and neither is Paul).
If such concepts and knots in understanding could be easily communicated and straightened out in few words, then I think there would be less disagreements and less dis-unity of mind/thought. But alas, the nature of what's being communicated, and how it was communicated, thanks to our finite minds, and limited time, is not that simple nor easy to transmit, or straighten out, and keep in context, unless people are totally immersed in it.
Understanding the whole message of the Bible requires a lot of first hand, deep, slow, reading of the text, everyone on the same page, acknowledging everything it says, and keeping it in orderly context. And if people are not patient enough to do that, in our sound-bite, download-everything-with-a-click-and-within-a-few-minutes, distracted, generation, then they won't understand it, they will jump to conclusions, butcher up concepts and Biblical timelines, trying to fill the gaps of their understanding (until they read it all or unless YHWH never revealed such details to us) with their own logic, not God's (or that nullifies God's logic and what He intended with what He said).
to be continued in a second reply, to address discrepancies in logic concerning the rapture theories, and ignored verses/concepts that add context and understanding to salvation by grace, and baptism
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:03 pm
edited: fixed grammar & clarified diction
[...continued]
There's also how sometimes God gives a general summary of a whole series of events in a single chapter of one book, and then zooms in and goes into minute detail of the same event(s). There will be an increase in complexity of the subject by doing so. And having to figure out how to plug in the details back into the overall, general outline is like going on Google maps, and zooming out completely (this is the overall general outline that we find in one chapter of one book), and then zooming into a country, a specific state, a city, a district, a zip code, etc; the more you zoom in and specify, the more information you have to string together, only to then zoom back out, and try to draw a cohesive line back to the general outline, with all that information still plugged into it.
So, as far as the rapture/harpazo/being caught up in the air goes: people need to tie it to Jesus' return (as Matthew 24 does), and establish when Jesus' return occurs (as Revelation 19-20 establishes): if people don't acknowledge when Jesus returns in the clouds, as the Book of Revelation reveals [Ch. 19-20] at resurrection of the dead (in agreement with the most famously quoted passage linked to the rapture teachings, which also describes the resurrection of the dead, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, when we meet the Lord in the air, His living believers included]), then they'll get it wrong. And don't fall for any absurd definitions of "the elect"—whomever Paul wrote letters to (Gentiles in Christ) are included in the elect as well. And I'll be quoting Matt 24 in the KJV for its English use of the word "tribulation" there (that's another thing, the word "tribulation" isn't consistently translated as that term in the more modern translations—so people don't pick up on all the passages that describe the tribulation and the rapture in relation to it):
Titus 1:1 (NIV)
1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness—
Matthew 24:21-31 (KJV)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV)
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 (NIV)
6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
Revelation 19:11-21 (NIV)
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
king of kings and lord of lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Footnotes:
a. Revelation 19:15 Psalm 2:9
Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Footnotes:
a. Revelation 20:4 Or God; I also saw those who
Judging by all of the above: the rapture, us being caught up to Him to meet Him in the sky and living with Him forever on earth—His return and the resurrection of the dead, getting caught up in the air along with His living believers—happens at the end, after the great tribulation. After He wages war on the beast and the false prophet. His faithful believers, not taking the mark of the beast, are the ones who resurrect first and reign with Him.
Jesus' incarnation through a woman's womb was His first coming. His return in the clouds of the sky to start His millenial reign is the second coming (not a third coming as the pre-tribulation, pre-wrath or mid-tribulation, rapture theories call on you to reason—I'm only aware of four by the way, those three and post-tribulation—because if He came to earth through a woman's womb, died, resurrected from the dead back to life on the third day, and ascended into the clouds forty days later, and then will return in the clouds, but only to get certain believers, leaves again, and then comes back yet again to start His millenial reign on earth, that's returning twice and total nonsense because those tribulation saints, that stay on earth (thus why they're getting beheaded by the beast) are not under a different covenant than we are, they're the first to resurrect from the dead and meet the Lord in the air, and there is no favoritism in Christ) .
Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
There's only one New Covenant and everyone under that New Covenant gets treated the same, and expected to be the same.
Jeremiah 31:31-33 (NIV)
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to[a] them,[b]” declares the Lord. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Footnotes:
a. Jeremiah 31:32 Hebrew; Septuagint and Syriac / and I turned away from b. Jeremiah 31:32 Or was their master
Romans 11:25 (NIV)
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
It's one body. I've heard people appealing to the phrase “Jacob's trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7) to make a distinction, and say tribulation (and great tribulation) is only for native-born Israelites, but they don't realize we—who believe in YHWH/YHWH-incarnate—are one body.
Isaiah 14:1 (NIV)
14 The Lord will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Foreigners will join them and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
Ezekiel 47:22 (NIV)
22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
We're all Jacob together assimilating into the tribes. We go through trouble too.
No one—native-born Israelite or gentile in Christ/YHWH-incarnate—can live in the enjoyment of sin anymore once they've been saved. You have to (and want to) put on Christ's nature, if His Spirit (who wants to obey God's Commands) is truly in you, and submit all thoughts to Christ.
Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient
2 Corinthians 10:5 (NIV)
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Matthew 15:19 (NIV)
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Revelation 19:7-8 (NIV)
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
Put on Christ's way of being if you've been saved. Again, it's not hard to understand. It's just a lot of information to get through and synthesize. It's not a case of either/or. It's both. Use the Holy Spirit, whom God provides you with (thus an act of His grace/favor), use the Word which God provides you with (another act of His grace/favor), to put the misdeeds of the body to death.
1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Titus 3:5 (NIV)
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 5:25-27 (NIV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Footnotes:
a. Ephesians 5:26 Or having cleansed
The Word of God (written or in the flesh) does not originate from us.
The Holy Spirit is not something whom we give to ourselves either.
God gives Him to us.
Thus grace in place of grace already given:
John 1:16-17 (NIV)
16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Receiving spoken (and written) guidance for how to do well on earth is an act of grace.
YHWH Himself incarnating into His own creation to guide us and sacrifice Himself for us is also an act of grace.
YHWH in Spirit-form Himself coming to dwell inside of us, as internal guidance in addition to His written word, is also an act of grace.
Grace on top of grace on top of grace.
However, as it relates to the Holy Spirit, whether we have to ask for Him (thus do something), for the Holy Spirit to come dwell inside of us, consent given (and thus the person demonstrating they do not want to sin anymore, and want to walk in obedience), or the person never asked for it, but was chosen by God for a specific purpose without their consent and before they ever turned from sin or believed anything (we find both scenarios and a mix of all these conditions):
Luke 11:13 (NIV)
13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Acts 2:38 (NIV)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:32 (NIV)
32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Acts 8:15-16 (NIV)
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 10:44-48 (NIV)
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Footnotes:
a. Acts 10:46 Or other languages
Luke 1:15 (NIV)
15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.
Luke 3:22 (NIV)
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
And notice the differences: John the Baptist (whom Luke 1:15 is referring to, Elizabeth's pregnancy) while in the womb (before he was born, thus before he ever believed anything, or repented of any sins, let alone heard the gospel or got baptized, before he can give consent or obey a single thing), was filled with the Holy Spirit since the womb. He was a special vessel chosen by God.
Jesus, in contrast, (not a Nazirite, though He is a Nazarene [from Nazareth]), when He went to get baptized in the river, received the Holy Spirit with some miraculous sign, descending like a dove upon His head, and yet some people who were baptized in Jesus didn't receive the Holy Spirit at all; they had to ask for Him in prayer or have the apostles pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit. And yet others like Cornelius (Acts 10) received the Holy Spirit before ever getting baptized (but he believed in God, prayed to Him regularly, as the chapter opens up by describing, and believed the Gospel Peter was preaching to him about Jesus in that very moment, as Peter was still speaking, thus received the Holy Spirit before getting baptized in water and fully hearing about Jesus).
Yet in all those different scenarios of how people received the Spirit of God, God the Father provided the Holy Spirit in all those cases. The grace of God is operating, sometimes with and sometimes without an individual's doing, depends on the situation and what kind of vessel they are (special or common), how they will be used, and to demonstrate what exactly.
Slight tangent: not that doing the physical immersion in water is necessary to have done what the baptism ritual symbolizes (confessing/acknowledging and turning away from your sins, leaving your former way of being and believing behind, and accepting Jesus and what He says; otherwise, the thief on the cross, who didn't get baptized in water, wouldn't have been saved but he was. And it would be totally legitimate for a person not to get baptized/immersed in water if they were making a point to prove to people (who believed you must get baptized in order to be saved), that the ritual itself doesn't save you, and thus show them that you can get saved without water baptism—like we saw with circumcision of the physical flesh; you don't have to circumcise your p***s, but you do have to be circumcised of that fleshly, sinful nature by Christ; likewise, you don't have to get physically immersed in water, but you must be immersed in Jesus, make that conscious choice of believing/trusting in Jesus and what He taught, following Him, and leaving your wicked ways behind [unless you receive the Holy Spirit like John the Baptist, but that seems rare]).
Luke 3:3 (NIV)
3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 3:11 (NIV)
11 “I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[b] the Holy Spirit and fire.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 3:11 Or in b. Matthew 3:11 Or in
Luke 23:38-43 (NIV)
38 There was a written notice above him, which read: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Footnotes:
a. Luke 23:42 Some manuscripts come with your kingly power
Mark 16:16 (NIV)
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
1 Peter 3:21 (NIV)
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Footnotes:
1 Peter 3:21 Or but an appeal to God for a clear conscience
Ephesians 4:5 (NIV)
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
How many baptisms are there? Some people describe three ("blood baptism" as some call it [a.k.a. martyrdom, being killed at the hands of the wicked for being righteous and walking like Christ], water baptism, and the Holy Spirit baptism). Others describe two [water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism]. Or is it only one? Which one is it then? Physical water that saves you? or accepting and immersing yourself in Jesus/the Word of God, renouncing wicked ways, conscience cleansed of all guilt? the water of the word cleansing you of your filthy ways as you immerse your mind in His teachings/words/thoughts? There's only one. And though there are physical acts / rituals that symbolize the one, there's still only one baptism (and it's not the literal water).
End slight tangent.
So if anyone tries to be dogmatic about how everyone receives the Holy Spirit—a specific formula, this step, then this step, then that step and this sign—then they're wrong. They'll be violating one of these verses / examples (ask for the Spirit, be baptized in water, hear the gospel and believe, repent from wicked ways and obey [a response, inward or outward, to what God said, thus trusting in what He said, thus demonstrating faith/having faith] or do absolutely nothing [in the womb without your awareness]). God decides. John the Baptist never showed any miraculous signs either...
John 10:41 (NIV)
41 and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.”
...and yet he was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb [Luke 1:15]. He didn't speak in tongues, the clouds didn't part with the voice of God the Father speaking and accepting Him, the Holy Spirit did not descend on John the Baptist in a miraculous way. But he was filled by the Holy Spirit as evidenced by how he lived, and what He spoke, and ever since the womb before he ever heard anything.
In the case of asking for the Holy Spirit (thus the believer having to do something), even then it's still the grace of God. How do we even know to ask for Him? Because of His Revelation (an act of grace; God provided the information, the visions, the knowledge, the Scripture that He inspired His servants to speak [and write down/document] so that His divine information would be around throughout the generations. So yes, it's all His grace, even if some/most of us have to ask and seek for Him. What are we seeking? Something that He already provided and revealed [something He already gave or gave access to]):
Romans 10:14 (NIV)
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
2 Peter 1:12-15 (NIV)
12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from[a] faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 16:26 Or that is
And on that note, if what they're saying does not agree with the Law and the Prophets (what was formerly written down in long ages past), then it is wrong.
Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Acts 24:14 (NIV)
14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
TL;DR (which by the way is part of the problem): people have to know everything He said to stop coming up with theories, interpretations, and doctrines, that nullify what is written. Some people faithfully do preach up to what they know, but others, because of lacking information in their minds, start coming up with whatever sounds logical/right to them, speculating in contradiction to something God said (or trying to fill up what He didn't say and nullifying what He did say).
So, it's better to be this:
Acts 18:24-26 (NIV)
24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor[a] and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
Footnotes:
a. Acts 18:25 Or with fervor in the Spirit
...rather than this:
Matthew 15:8-9 (NIV)
8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’[a]”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 15:9 Isaiah 29:13
Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, and various "Christian" sects are full of the latter sadly in different degrees. If I sound all calm, cool, and collected, don't let that fool you, because on the inside I feel just as frustrated whenever I hear/come across the unsound logic. But know that there is a flesh problem and a spiritual battle going on (doctrines of demons/devils) on top of just plain ignorance/unawareness. And we have to help the body, using our God-given talents, and positions of authority/influence, to straighten them out, establish His truth faithfully, strong towers of sound doctrine, while breaking down their walls of false doctrine or repairing what went deviant, like Jesus would do in His conversations with them, drawing attention to their discrepancies in thinking and drawing them back to walk into the narrow ancient path that offers rest for their souls, if they even listen (because some Pharisees didn't / some Christians don't accept the correction either).
Matthew 11:29 (NIV)
29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Jeremiah 6:16 (NIV)
16 This is what the Lord says:
“Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
Again, [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored] because the New Testament is most definitely not teaching Lawlessness (and neither is Paul—nor anyone else in the New Testament).
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longdaysandpleasantnights
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:32 am
I see what you mean each and every day. This confusion, or preferred confusion seems to be all around us not only in our home or leisure lives, but in the work place too. I've recently over heard coworkers saying that certain biblical stories about majors Christian Holidays are flawed; they profess to have read them, but I suspect people are too set in their ways and prefer not to believe them if these teachings aren't consistent with their own worldly lives. Furthermore, to spread such doubt to others they come in contact... well that saddens me greatly. And then there is the issue of denominations fighting amongst one another: should the Bible a Book of questions like this??? I share your concern and I am at the end of my rope too....
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:31 pm
Sure, many people only hear what they wanna hear. But that is not exclusive to Christianity. That is just how lots of people are. That kind of thinking presents itself in politics too. Calling Christians a bad community because of these reasons is an exaggeration. There are plenty of way worse communities. Like some video game communities are pretty horrible. There are churches full of really nice and good people. It's good that you recognize these feelings aren't a good thing.
So I come from a similar background of relying heavily on logic. I was an atheist for most of my life. I converted to Christianity a couple years ago and there were many questions I wanted answers for. Many, many people are extremely fiery when they first convert. A verse I urge you to meditate on is "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." (Proverbs 3:5). I always come back to this bible verse when I'm trying to make sense of everything. Ultimately, what matters more; being right and knowledgeable of the entire bible and critical of other Christians OR trusting in the Lord for salvation?
"Why is there confusion on salvation by works or grace?" Because the apostle Paul's apologetics are complicated, difficult, and jam packed with theology. It seems like the overall conclusion drawn by Christians who know the bible is that works are an indicator that you have been saved, but not something that saves you in themselves. From my understanding, Catholics believe that works are necessary for salvation while most protestants believe otherwise.
"Why are there 4 or 5 different views on the rapture?" Because the book of revelations and Jesus's teachings on this subject are open to many interpretations. If you look at the prophets of the Old Testament, do you think everyone had the same understanding of what they were prophesying? It's okay to not know for sure what the future holds or what the end of the world will look like or when it will be. Knowing these things doesn't change anything except that you know them or you don't.
"Why does God allow the defilement of his Word?" Ask Him. In a way, I don't think God allows for His Word to be defiled. The overall message of His Word to us that is necessary for salvation has been present and accessible to believers since "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."
"Why does God write his book in a way that confuses people?" Ask Him. If you have a question about God then ask Him with prayer and an open heart to receive His answers. But like I said before, it is not necessary to have answers for everything and to know everything.
Maybe something you can practice is every time a Christian makes you angry because of perceived ignorance, then pray for them.
Hope this helped!
Swegkid908
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SARL0
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:05 pm
after reading your post this is what comes to mind:
Ephesians 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
in a few verses prior to verse 26, some sinful and worldly and dark ways are mentioned. It's my belief that we Christians are supposed to feel angry towards sinfulness and wickedness. so it's okay to feel anger over false teachings and sinful behavior,wickedness, ect. But... we're also instructed to live peacefully with all men as much as we're able to.
One thing that helps me with people who tend to annoy me more than usual or irritate me to the point of anger is, i pray for them. if i catch myself getting ticked off at that same person i ask myself "have you been praying for them lately?" It helps me and my response and my feelings towards them if i've spent time praying for them. it helps me to love them and be patient with them more.
it's okay to be angry about certain things. i fully believe God expects us to. just be peaceful and gentle and kind hearted cos God expects that stuff too 3nodding
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