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Living symbolically

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Living symbolically?
  I think you may be reading too much into it.
  It sounds reasonable enough.
  If it has a poll, it's got to be good!
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WebenBanu

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:23 pm


This is something which I've been thinking about over the past few months, through experiences and conversations which I've had with various people. I am now going to attempt to put it in words.^_~

I find that many of the things which might be considered "superstitious" can be quite telling, in a very literal sense. If we accept that the various parts of our world have both spiritual and physical components, and that there are spiritual principles at work in this world, then it follows that physical or "mundane" phenomena are often the most easily perceived parts of those spiritual components as they are affected by these principles. It's like looking out of a window at the movements of the leaves on a tree, to see which way the winds are blowing. If we can come to understand the spiritual natures of those physical objects and events, to see where each of them fits into the spiritual mechanisms of this world, then they can be interpreted in such a way that they reveal the more subtle undercurrents of the world around us. In other words, I tend to interpret life as I would a dream. Of course, I take the physical events themselves seriously- and I deal with them accordingly. But I also take seriously the symbolism behind what is happening. What, in its most general and symbolic form, is happening? Why is it happening now? This was one of the first ways in which I learned to recognize the "voices" of the ntjrw, and it is still a very basic and powerful approach. Furthermore, the same principle works both ways, in that certain physical objects or events can be introduced, respectfully, at the appropriate times in order to activate the spiritual forces to which they are tied. This does wonderful things when combined with ritual practices- especially Kemetic ones.^_^ Taken together, these two applications of this worldview are essentially what superstition is, at its core, and to the best of my understanding. What is often regarded as "superstition," then, turns out to be merely perception. Not a bad thing to have at all, and in my opinion it's quite in keeping with the way the ancient Egyptians perceived their world as well.^_^
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:29 pm


First of all, welcome back Banu! *glomps* Good to see you back in action!

Now, with that out of the way, let's get to the meat of the discussion: You're point is interesting, but I think a little confused. What you're describing, interpreting symbolism in waking life and superstition; superstition is often founded in mundane or Christian philosophy. The number 13 is considered unlucky because thirteen people sat down to eat at the Last Supper, Christ and his twelve desciples, but Judas betrayed Christ and the crucifixion was the result; breaking a mirror became bad luck because mirrors were once rare, and exteremely expensive. Of course it was bad luck to break one!

However, what you're describing is a divinatory approach to life. While an interesting perspective, one would have to take into account that not everything that happens is a divine omen or message; if I stub my toe while trying to get dressed in the dark at 5:30 in the morning, it doesn't necessarily mean that the gods or anyone on the spiritual side of things is angry with me, or even trying to tell me something; it means I was half asleep, stunned, and should have turned on the light. blaugh That said, however, it would be interesting to at least examin the possibility of a deeper meaning to events in my daily life, especially unusual ones. I also suppose with time, one would be able more clearly to determine which events in the run of a day could have a deeper signifigance, and which are simply... mundane, for lack of a better term.

The Bookwyrm
Crew


Jameta
Captain

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:21 pm


From what I've gathered (as my mind is torn in many places at the moment), I have formed the following throught:

If dreams are our own personal realities, than why shouldn't the events in the shared conciousness be interpreted the same way, particularly if one views life's purpose as to learn?

(If that didn't make sense [aka, sounded retarded], that's fine. Feel free to pick it apart. xp )
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:59 pm


Thanks for the welcome back, Gypsy! You make some good points, but I am still inclined to believe that any event reveals effects or implications in both the physical and spiritual aspects of our world. Every event, when studied in this way, can give us information- however, inconsequential events will yield likewise inconsequential information, and they're really not worth the effort. As in dream interpretation, it doesn't do to dwell on too many minute details because that will bog you down in minor matters while the more important overall themes become overshadowed. So when thinking about my life this way, I find it more helpful to concentrate either on big, important events- either good or bad (though admittedly, it's more likely to grab my attention if it's bad and I'm looking for a solution to the problem^_^')- or general themes, and/or repetitive events.

For instance, if you wake up early one morning and stub your toe, then investigating the spiritual meaning of that action probably won't shed much light on anything you really care about. But if you suddenly develop a habit of dropping things, knocking stuff over, and tripping over nothing then that may be something to look into. Has something in life been "tripping you up"? Should you be paying attention to those things which may be "slipping through your grasp"? Are you not gathering enough information to "shed light on the subject" before you act? Is that leading to your "stumbling around in the dark"? Or is s/Someone trying to get your attention? There are also traditions which teach that spiritual exhaustion can result in these sorts of things- so perhaps you're in need of some personal restoration. Each of these questions may reveal something significant, and it could be profitable to step back and look at the big picture.

As for the number 13, etc., again you make some good points and that's an interesting association with the number! I'd heard that the unlucky nature of the number 13 is related to the 13 moons of a lunar year, and the prominence of lunar calendars and celebrations in various non-Christian cultures. I guess that just goes to show that when interpreting symbols, it's wise to research their provenance and derivation- that will help you to correctly identify their associations and more effectively analyze any meanings they may hold. As above, if I go to the grocery store and my bill comes out to be $13, I probably won't think much of it other than a "heh, neat!" However, if the number 13 starts popping up all over the place, especially if I'm working at a critical juncture in life, then I'd be much more inclined to look into the numerological significance of the number 13 and see if an application of that knowledge to my current situation turns out to be significant. Knowing that breaking a mirror is bad luck because they were once valuable, on the other hand, could very well be valuable information if mirrors started shattering on me- it might warn me toward greater financial responsibility or caution. Or it may somehow work into a theme of shattering self-images.^_~ It's important to keep in mind the context of any event, and not get locked down into any one interpretation.

In my experience so far, most of the application of this way of thinking is punny in nature, and in that case it's often helpful to look at overlying themes- what is happening ideologically rather than literally- and probably not analyzing every little thing that happens. Symbolic numbers and objects can act as keys to clue you in on themes, or they may add shades of meaning to your interpretations. I find that the symbolic value of objects often has root in their metaphysical significance, and so I'd be more inclined to favor an interpretation of any such thing based on its magical associations (which would be verified through a much more scientific exploration of magical use) than anything else- but "old wives' tales" may also provide helpful information. I think it'd also be important to keep an open mind that there may be more than one possible interpretation for any given event or symbol, as most objects and events have a range of associations, and possibly even a symbol's personal meaning may have some significance- I'm tempted to go into a discussion of quantum theory and the "power of the observer," where the person who is watching an experiment (in this case, life) has a subconscious influence on the results (and therefore the symbols which manifest). However, I really don't know enough on the subject to go much deeper than that.^_^

WebenBanu


WebenBanu

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:48 pm


Jameta
If dreams are our own personal realities, than why shouldn't the events in the shared conciousness be interpreted the same way, particularly if one views life's purpose as to learn?


It makes sense to me, Jameta.^_^ I think this is one of those things which sounds crazy when you first say it, but if you sit down and think about it- particularly from a metaphysical or psychological angle- it makes very good and practical sense. Worst case scenario, even if we're totally off the wall with this, it is an exercise which leads us to live lives more actively and fully aware- tuned into what is going on around us instead of simply wading through it all.

However, I'm inclined to believe that there is even more to it than that, and when the mechanisms behind this process are understood, they can be applied as a way of responding to the world around us. Through doing this, we take stock of where we are in relation to everything else, and respond to that so that we become a more well-adjusted part of the world in all levels.
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 4:45 pm


I think you have an interesting point. I live very much the same way. I have a knack for figuring things out that I shouldn't be able to. I mostly do it by reading what I see around me. If I see a funky cloud pattern in the sky and the leaves are moving strangely in the trees, it might rain soon, for example. I'm about 60% right, usually within only 24-48 hours, however. It is the same thing as when your ears pop right before a big front moves in, or the creaky knees thing that the elderly or arthritic get before a storm.
Augury can help you if you choose to let it.

I once freaked a girl out in driver's ed. when I told her it would snow that night or the day after, and then it did the next morning. She was kind of leary to ask how I did it, but I don't think my explanation helped any.

Lila Malvae


WebenBanu

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:50 pm


I find that about 10-15 minutes before rain falls, you'll generally see a wind blowing straight down. This is caused by collisions between fronts of hot and cold air, and the convection currents which result. That's not quite what I was talking about above- the example of watching the wind blowing the leaves was intended as a metaphor for watching life events (as leaves) for signs of the conditions and movements within the spiritual parts of our lives and world (in this case, as compared to the movements of the air/wind). But yeah- I know what you mean, and it's a useful skill.^_^ My mother taught me that trick, and I can also sometimes just smell the rain on the air or feel the increased humidity.

But since you seem to be the sort of person who pays attention to the world around her, you may either already be doing some of what I'm talking about, or you're in a great position to start!^_^
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 7:04 pm


Yep. ^.^

Lila Malvae


jessicamundi

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:01 am


Yes, it seems the essential concepts running through this thread are the following:

Divinatory outlook on life. This is the surface concept as some might define it. The idea is that if we observe life well enough, we can divine what the Divine has in store for us or is trying to communicate to us. I do not see divination as simply looking into the future, but rather a discourse with my Divinity about certain aspects of my life. I have had many conversations with the wind in my life.

I would also like to rebut the idea that some things are just coincidence. If you believe something is coincidence, then it is. This is an aspect of skepticism, a methodology of lessening the significance of events which we witness. Using oracles is the opposite of this, which draws from our awareness of our surroundings to notice the significance of all things which take place around us. If you believe in oracles, you will find them; but only where you believe oracles exist. If you do not believe in oracles at all, you will find none. If you don't believe the wind can help you solve your problems, it will not. If you don't believe someone can determine the next two hours of weather from what happens in a matter of a few seconds (downdrafts of wind), then no one can. If you do not believe in a God/dess or Gods, then there will be none for you.

Belief is an extremely powerful tool, just as non-belief is. I think what is being suggested here is that we tap into our fullest possible awareness of the world around us. If we can, we may find that nothing is coincidence, and that everything is synchronicity. Sure, if you stub your toe on a chair, it may not mean "the Gods are angry," but it could mean that maybe you need to get a bigger apartment or re-arrange your furniture. It's not a coincidence that you stubbed your toe. The chair was somewhere where you would not notice it at the level of awareness you are currently at. Therefore you must either modify your awareness of the chair in the future, or modify the placement of the chair to match your awareness. If nothing else, *that* is the lesson this event can teach.

And so you can find that even in stubbing your toe, a lesson about awareness arises. Do you choose to modify your awareness to create the balance you need with the world around you, or do you choose to modify the world around to you to create the balance you need for your awareness. To me this is the ultimate question to MANY things in life. I'm still working on this. Buddhists would say modify awareness. Pagans would say modify the world around you. Christians would say modify the world around you (to an extent). Taoists would say modify awareness. I would say that we must strive to modify our awareness enough that we can modify the world around us. These two constantly pull us in either direction and lead us to better lives as we strive for our destined Divine perfection as energetic beings of consciousness.
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