Give up True Happiness for Christianity?

[Seira Relur]

I was talking to my uncle(we'll call Dave) the other day. A year ago he finally came out to the family as a homosexual. Though he had also said that he had no intentions on acting upon it.
We at first were rambling about things such as rpg games, computers, his band (yeah, he's the lead guitarist in a band... he rocks!) and whatever else came to mind. Somehow, we got on the subject about his sexuality. I asked his if he really wasn't going to act on his feelings.
He replied that his feelings weren't a part of the situation and that he's sinned against god enough.
I was like "Following your heart is a sin now?"
"God is against it. The Bible is against it." We began arguing about whether its right or not; he compared homosexual acts to stealing and whatever else in the 10 commandments.
I argued about how you can't compare your hearts desires to something like taking from another. And he told me that I just wasn't thinking like an adult to understand.
Before I left i said "Would a god really want you to put what a book says before true happiness? It doesn't take an adult to know its better to be happy with someone you care about... little details like that don't matter."

I'm sorry... I'm just really aggravated with him. Thoughts?  

[Azana Brown]

Well, it sounds like your relative is hanging out with the wrong Christians, honestly. There are many sects of the church that are rather welcoming to him and would probably give him the reassurance he needs.

In addition, the major Bible verse they use, if memory serves, to talk about the wrongs of homosexuality is in Leviticus (Please correct me if I'm mistaken!), and Paul, writer of most of the new Testament and pretty much the authority on new Christian (as opposed to the vengeful Old Testament stuff) beliefs debunked that crazy prophet.

You need to try and get through to him, either way. He'll feel quite hollow if he follows his faith and doesn't allow himself to live and love. If all else fails, you can remind him that there are alternatives to such strict Christianity. ^_^  

[The Bookwyrm]

To be honest, and this isn't going to sound like an appealing alternative at all, you have to leave him to find his own way. He's already voiced his opinion on your advice when he told you that you weren' thinking like an adult. It's unfortunate, and it is upsetting, but he has to make his own choices. If the family were supportive (and he'd want to see it from the adults, unfortunately), then maybe he might come around more quickly. Or maybe not.

The best thing you can do is simply accept his decision and support him whatever he does; it's his life, his emotions, and his faith. He needs to have the same freedom to act upon them as any of us, without being pushed one way or another. I just hope he sees through the tainted view he holds right now.  

[blindfaith^_^]

It would depend on sect of Christianity your Uncle follows. If he is Roman Catholic, it is the Roman Catholic stance that being gay or lesbian isn't a sin in itself, but acting on it is. If he is Roman Catholic or a Christian sect a lot like that one, then he is doing what is religiously right for him if he wants to get into heaven.

The rational for this stance is that God has created each of us with flaws and potential weaknesses to sin. It is the individual's goal to struggle against one's negative inclinations as much as possible. With in the confines of this belief homosexuals, are born with an attraction to the same gender that they must not act on.

Don't misunderstand me though, there are many different sects of Christianity and I know not all of them are this strict. Also there are many belief systems that don't have rules disallowing homosexuality. And the belief I've presented above is in no way one I support, but it is the belief system that devout Roman Catholics are supposed to subscribe to.

I think the important thing to do is to support to support your uncle and his decision whether or not it is to take on a lover or to not act on his feelings. Supporting people in these situation is really no matter how they want to handle thier life (short of hurting someone or oneself).  

[DR490N]

i would agree wholeheartedly with you. i have friends who are gay or bisexual, and may be bisexual myself(still trying to sort that one out in my head). also, my view is that this so called god(whose true name is Jehovah according ot the bible, but has been simply refeered to as "the god", "our god" and later simply "god", likely part of the efforts to end worship of pagan gods) is termed a "loving god". if this god is love, then why are his followers so hateful towards everyone else? why does his so called 'word' state that witches are supposed to be burned, one of the most painful ways to die? the answer? christians are stupid and ignorant. their text is full of flaws, their logic even more flawed. there is nothing wrong with gays, nothing wrong with loving someone. you choose your path in life. thats life. i coudl say more but if i do i'll start ranting more.  

[Feryal Riska]

I believe, like religion, it is your friend's choice to believe what he wants about himself and everything else, even if it's flawed. Like Gypsy Blue said, just accept it and be there for him if he's not receptive.  

[The Bookwyrm]

DR490N

i would agree wholeheartedly with you. i have friends who are gay or bisexual, and may be bisexual myself(still trying to sort that one out in my head). also, my view is that this so called god(whose true name is Jehovah according ot the bible, but has been simply refeered to as "the god", "our god" and later simply "god", likely part of the efforts to end worship of pagan gods) is termed a "loving god". if this god is love, then why are his followers so hateful towards everyone else? why does his so called 'word' state that witches are supposed to be burned, one of the most painful ways to die? the answer? christians are stupid and ignorant. their text is full of flaws, their logic even more flawed. there is nothing wrong with gays, nothing wrong with loving someone. you choose your path in life. thats life. i coudl say more but if i do i'll start ranting more.

It itsn't the word of god that decreed the bit about witches; that was a "mistranslation" that fit into the witch hysteria of the middle ages; originally, it read "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live", and it doesn't specify how you had to kill them. It was people who did that. Fearful and most importantly ignorant people, and ignorance isn't reserved to anyone specific religion. Not all Christians are hateful, and blanket statments like you keep posting demonstrate the same kind of ignorance and inteloerance. Watch it.  

[WebenBanu]

DR490N

if this god is love, then why are his followers so hateful towards everyone else? why does his so called 'word' state that witches are supposed to be burned, one of the most painful ways to die? the answer? christians are stupid and ignorant. their text is full of flaws, their logic even more flawed.

Y'know, I hate to say it, but I'd take your views on this a lot more seriously if it weren't for the fact that your sig has an animated picture of two men gunning down another in the living room. Christianity has its flaws, to be sure, and there are some people who seem to take those aspects of the religion and make them even more problematic than they should be. However, spewing self-righteous venom at them for those tendencies toward violence and hatred while showcasing violent murder as light hearted humor is hypocritical, and makes it look like their every complaint against us Pagans is well demonstrated and justifiable.

On the original topic, I agree with Gypsy and Blindfaith. Unfortunately, I doubt very much that you're going to get through to him and the more you try to persuade him that a loving god wouldn't be putting him through the "test" he perceives here... the more likely he's going to be to decide that you're a part of that test. It's his decision, and he has a right to make it. wink And although it may pain us to see him put himself through what we percieve as unnatural and unnecessary, it may also be worth noting that he is obviously getting something out of it or he wouldn't hold onto it so devotedly. We might pray for him to find the path which is ultimately the most healthy one in his case, whatever that may be, but ultimately the decision of whether or not to break away from such thoroughly ingrained ways of thinking can only come from within him- no amount of logic can get through if you don't believe in it.

Remember, forcing him to accept his sexuality may be just as much an invasion of personal choice and freedoms as forcing him to deny it. My advice is to just be open-minded, give him your love, and let him be who he is.  

[Seira Relur]

WebenBanu

On the original topic, I agree with Gypsy and Blindfaith. Unfortunately, I doubt very much that you're going to get through to him and the more you try to persuade him that a loving god wouldn't be putting him through the "test" he perceives here... the more likely he's going to be to decide that you're a part of that test. It's his decision, and he has a right to make it. wink And although it may pain us to see him put himself through what we percieve as unnatural and unnecessary, it may also be worth noting that he is obviously getting something out of it or he wouldn't hold onto it so devotedly. We might pray for him to find the path which is ultimately the most healthy one in his case, whatever that may be, but ultimately the decision of whether or not to break away from such thoroughly ingrained ways of thinking can only come from within him- no amount of logic can get through if you don't believe in it.

Alright then. Thank you all for your advice. It's greatly appreciated. I feel kind of dumb (and maybe even a bit immature for arguing) that I was so mad at him that I didn't really let myself think from another point of view. heart smile heart
Thanks to you all again.  

[Starlock]

Well, looks like I've come to the party a bit late. Alas, that's what happens when I'm out of the office and out in the wildlands... confused  

[Childhood Dreams]

Hey, Seira, don't worry about it! Often all we need to clear our minds a bit is another's perspective on things. Nothing wrong with that.

And I wholeheartedly agree with WebenBanu.

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