Forte

[Colourburn]

First of all, I am very sorry if this has already been posted.

I am writing this because I have an ongoing argument. I am certain "forte" is one of the most mispronounced words. No one else seems to agree with me.

When speaking of music, the word is pronounced "for-tay." However... when speaking of a talent or strength, it is actually pronounced "fort." I may be wrong, but I believe one is a French word, the other Italian.

I have a problem. If I choose to pronounce the word correctly, everyone I speak to thinks I'm an idiot. If I don't, I feel silly because I know how incorrect it is.

What are your feelings about the word? How do you pronounce it?  

[The Man who was Thursday]

It's pronounced /ˈfɔrteɪ/ according to dictionary.com.

Your pronunciation only applies to a part of a sword.  

[Colourburn]

Ezra Pound

It's pronounced /ˈfɔrteɪ/ according to dictionary.com.

Your pronunciation only applies to a part of a sword.

Because of your research, I decided to look into it deeper as well. Here are my findings:

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: 1forte
Pronunciation: 'fort; 2 is often 'for-"tA or for-'tA or 'for-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: French fort, from fort, adjective, strong
1 : the part of a sword or foil blade that is between the middle and the hilt and that is the strongest part of the blade
2 : one's strong point
usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated 'for-"tA and 'for-tE because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived 2forte. Their recommended pronunciation 'fort, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would rhyme it with English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English 'fo-"tA and 'fot predominate; 'for-"tA and for-'tA are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.

American Heritage Dictionary @ Answers.com

for·te1 (fôr'tā', fôrt, fōrt) pronunciation
n.

1. Something in which a person excels.
2. The strong part of a sword blade, between the middle and the hilt.

[French fort, from Old French, strong, from Latin fortis. See fort.]

SYNONYMS forte, métier, specialty, thing. These nouns denote something at which a person is particularly skilled: Writing fiction is her forte. The theater is his métier. The professor's specialty was the study of ancient languages. Mountain climbing is really my thing.

USAGE NOTE The word forte, coming from French fort, should properly be pronounced with one syllable, like the English word fort. Common usage, however, prefers the two-syllable pronunciation, (fôr'tā'), which has been influenced possibly by the music term forte borrowed from Italian. In a recent survey a strong majority of the Usage Panel, 74 percent, preferred the two-syllable pronunciation. The result is a delicate situation; speakers who are aware of the origin of the word may wish to continue to pronounce it as one syllable but at an increasing risk of puzzling their listeners.

Maven's Word of the Day

The pronunciation of forte 'strong point' is a subject of much debate. The most common pronunciation--by far--in America is FOR-tay, the same as the Italian musical term. Conservative usage writers usually insist that this pronunciation is wrong, and only the pronunciation FORT (identical to the word fort 'defensive military location') is acceptable. The rationale is that the French word forte should be pronounced like fort in English; people who pronounce is FOR-tay are either confusing it with the Italian musical term or are assuming that it's spelled forté, which would be pronounced FOR-tay. (In fact, the word is occasionally found in print in the forté spelling, confirming that people do make that mistake.)

There are several problems with this argument. First, the French word is simply not forte, it is fort, so the forte spelling is wrong from the start. Second, the correct French word fort is pronounced FOR, without a "t." Thus, anyone claiming that the FORT pronunciation is correct because of any connection with French is simply wrong. Another factor is that French words can be Anglicized however we see fit--Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage points out that the punctuation mark (') is pronounced uh-PAHS-tro-fee in English, even though it "should" be pronounced ah-pahs-TROPH, since it's from French. Finally, there's the point that the FOR-tay pronunciation is so common that most people now have never heard of the FORT pronunciation and will think it's wrong.

None of this, of course, makes FOR-tay a correct pronunciation; it comes from a mistake of one kind or another. But there is no pronunciation of forte 'strong point' that is etymologically acceptable, so it comes down to a question of choosing which error you want to go with. FORT is favored by the more conservative, but is much less familiar; FOR-tay is far more common but is thought to be wrong by people who bother expressing opinions on such matters. The choice is yours.  

[The Man who was Thursday]

Also, when do we ever keep the original pronunciations of words when importing them into English?  

[ljosberinn]

I know the forte from music is Italian, but I don't think I've never actually used it for a talent or strength, so I've never really given it any thought confused
I'll admit though that I probably would pronounce it in the Italian way if I saw it.. that's the wrong way then?

 

[[~~Bakky~~]]

When speaking of talent or strength, as in 'Playing piano isn't my forte.'? I've always pronounced it for-té.  

[The_Animat0r]

[~~Bakky~~]

When speaking of talent or strength, as in 'Playing piano isn't my forte.'? I've always pronounced it for-té.

As do I. To tell you the truth, I've never heard ANYONE say "fort" when using it that specific usage.

But that's Texas for ya. pirate blaugh  

[FeelinShiny]

I've only ever heard and said "for-tay"... But then I play piano and I say it without thinking...

And if it was French wouldn't it be pronouced "for" only using the 't' sound if the next word starts with a vowel sound?  

[MyOwnBestCritic]

I pronounce it "for-tay."  

[Masamune no Hi]

I've never heard it pronounced 'fort.' Ever.  

[Colourburn]

See, this is my point. It has become one of those words that is so mispronounced, the mispronunciation has become correct. Odd how that happens.

FeelinShiny

And if it was French wouldn't it be pronouced "for" only using the 't' sound if the next word starts with a vowel sound?

*nods*

The way I understand it is... when speaking of a talent or strength, the word "forte" should be one syllable. In French, the "t" sound would not be used (making it "for"). At some point in English usage, the "t" began to be pronounced. Most likely because of confusion with the Italian word? And these days, "for-tay" is all you really hear.

Does that make the most popular pronunciation correct by default?  

[Gachetemas]

Sure. That's why "ain't" is in the Dictionary. If a word is used by enough people, a council of language experts votes on adding it. Sometimes that can take a while.