The Afterlife

[Iyasis]

I am just very interested in what the different views were on this. Do you believe in Heaven or Hell? What about reincarnation? The Summerlands? Or is there no Afterlife at all?  

[The Bookwyrm]

My beliefs are pretty standard, I think. I believe in reincarnation as a cycle, and between incarnations that the spirit resides in the Summerlands, or a place very similar. At the end of the cycle, I believe that the spirit disapates and becomes a part of the energies that make up the rest of the universe.

Heaven/Hell, as a concept, really don't work for me. I find it very hard to put my faith in a system that will reward of punish me in the after life, and leave to my own devices in this one, especially when the authorities on the subject have absolutely no agreement on the subject: I could either be damned from the moment of birth and there's nothing I can do about it, or I can redeem myself through my actions. I much prefer the idea that what I do in this life, reflects on it, and that in the afterlife, all slates are washed clean.  

[Jameta]

I haven't given it much thought yet, considering I haven't smoothed out all of my beliefs at the moment. I believe in an after life with multiple environments, just as this plane as multiple environments. To what purpose each holds, I could not at the moment, considering how tired I feel. gonk

I do believe in reincarnation, as itwould make sense with the laws of energy and matter (that they cannot be destroyed or something like that), and it would make sense that you cannot do and learn everything in one lifetime.

I mean, think how stressful that would be. xp  

[Starlock]

Reincarnation is a fact of existence, just not how most people think of reincarnation. There is no true death, and there is no true birth. There is only transition and change of state because matter is not created or destroyed. When we die, our bodies simply become part of something else; that ot me is reincarnation in a sense. And I am glad to take part in such a cycle. For my death will allow other life forms to live on. For there to be life, there must be death.

As for the soul, I do not think there are any set rules for it's path or destination. I'm not even entirely sure this 'soul' thing exists. There is energy in all things and as a mere human, I know the limits of my senses prevent me from seeing the whole picture. I can feel these energies and channel them, but I can't know much about them other than what I choose to believe. Following the above ideas, though, biology teaches us that all life forms are bundles of high energy. When they cannot sustain that high energy, the organism dies. That energy and becomes part of the larger pool of energy. Later it's gathered up again to be part of many other life forms.

Is that energy the same thing as the soul? Who knows. I think it is one aspect of the soul. The other is the one perserved in our memories of things long since transitioned into another state of being. Memories of dead grandparents and historic eras long past... but as in my belief system, I believe all things exist somewhere, the pool of memories themselves is proof enough that something of us perpetuates beyond our transition of forms.  

[WebenBanu]

In Kemetic tradition, there are several interpretations of the afterlife. Once the kA has been justified in a trial based on that person's actions in life, it unites with the bA and produces something called an Ax- more commonly spelled "akh"- which means "a shining/effective spirit." The words for "shining" and "effective" are the same, so it's a pun. The akhw (plural for akh) are represented as stars in the sky, and act as intermediaries between humans and spirits- being spiritual entities themselves, and yet having connections with those on earth, they are in a prime position to act as a sort of bridge. This sort of "job" is what I mostly hope for out of the afterlife. I really enjoy interacting with the modern Kemetic community, I've learned a lot from it, and I enjoy seeing the way our temples are growing and our people are learning- so I want to continue doing this after I die.

But that's not the only place you can end up- there are many parts to the body, and so the different aspects of being can end up in different places. I'm not sure how all of these interact with each other at this point, but there's also a place called "The Field of Reeds" which seems to be an ideal pastoral setting- where the kA of a person (the energetic double, which contains the memories and personality of a particular life, and is shaped by that person's experiences as they develop) will continue living, much as they would in a similar "lifetime" setting. Here you can grow crops, practice trades, raise families if you want (yes, you can have kids in the afterlife- I wonder if they come from those who die young?), throw parties, and in some cases even rub elbows with the ntjrw Themselves. I've heard of some ntjrw having specialized areas of the afterlife where Their most devoted followers go- Mai-Hs, son of Bast, for instance, is one such god. I suspect that there are others; the afterlife is a big place, with many different fields and divisions.

Then there is the bA, which I think of as being the essential essence of a person- kind of like a eternal spark of life, or perhaps it's like a piece of divinity which serves as our spiritual core. I'm still ironing out exactly what all the different parts do- it can be difficult since I don't think the ancient Egyptians left us a manual, and most egyptologists don't seem to care much for going in-depth on the theory, but I pick up what I can from my readings in different places. The bA is much more mobile than other parts of the body, and is usually shown as a bird with that person's head. It can travel back and forth between the realms of the living and the dead, and between the various aspects of its former body. There are spells for the bA to use to take on various different forms, so this part of a person could come back to the living world, take on a different form, and watch over/continue to be with living persons for short periods of time. I get the feeling that it can't sustain those forms for very long, but I have no idea what the limit would be- in order to sustain these abilities, however, it needs to be able to periodically reunite with the kA and either the body of the deceased, or a special image of that person's living appearance which was created for the purpose. Personally, I plan on having a small statue created for the purpose.

However, if a soul fails that all important initial test, then the heart is thrown to the Devourer, Am-Mt, and the kA is destroyed. I see this as an opportunity to start from scratch, as nothing is said about what happens to the bA- I assume that it is placed into a new body to try again. My basis for believing this is that I know of at least one king by the name of "He of many births," there are references in the Book of Coming Forth by Day to souls who are "born again in the morning like Ra," and there is a square on the senet board- a game which approximates the afterlife journey- which is called the "Square of Rebirth" or the "Square of Good Returns," to which one is sent after falling to a perilous square immediately following the square of embalment. I interpret this as meaning that the soul fails an ordeal in the afterlife, and gets sent back to "try again." To me, this makes a great deal of sense, and there are a few other Kemetics who agree with me.

And so I leave it at that- in the end, I don't spend too much time worrying about it, as I will simply have to cross that bridge when I come to it, and before that- unless I improve my trance journeying ability- there's no real way for me to take a good look around before I go. For now, this is my working theory of the Kemetic afterlife.

Please forgive my somewhat strange italic spellings- I've been combining my studies in Middle Egyptian language and its standardized transliteration systems with my writings on theological matters, and try to stick with it as much as I can without (or I hope without) confusing the people reading these posts.^_^'

Jameta

I believe in an after life with multiple environments, just as this plane as multiple environments.

I agree with Jameta about multiple afterlife environments- I suspect all the various afterlife places which are described by different religions do in fact exist, and that which one you travel to depends on what direction you're facing (i.e. where you believe you'll end up) when you die. Your soul goes to whichever place best matches its expectations of the afterlife, in other words. This makes me wonder about families and friends who follow different religious systems. For most religions, it would probably be similar to living in different neighborhoods or even different states or countries- depending on how "far apart" the afterlife beliefs of those systems turned out to be. I suspect that I could get a passport to travel between realms fairly easily from Djhwty, but then there are other afterlife realms where the inhabitants are not quite so friendly towards outsiders. Christian heaven, for instance (yes, I believe it exists), would probably be locked up like a fort, and I don't know how difficult it would be to visit people in there- or if those people would be allowed out to socialize with the rest of us (or more appropriately, perhaps, if they would be allowed back in afterwards). But most likely something could be worked out- I wonder if they have a mail system? I know that the living can send letters to the dead, so I suspect that the deceased can write to one another as well.  

[Rose Mystica]

I believe there's some afterlife slated for each of us, but I'm just not sure what it is. 3nodding I don't believe in reincarnation, though. xp I'm, like, the only one who doesn't.  

[Jameta]

Helter Skelter Hippie

I believe there's some afterlife slated for each of us, but I'm just not sure what it is. 3nodding I don't believe in reincarnation, though. xp I'm, like, the only one who doesn't.

That's okay. If you don't feel it applies, then it doesn't. JUst because somethign works for many doesn't mean it works for all of us.  

[Jameta]

WebenBanu

Christian heaven, for instance (yes, I believe it exists), would probably be locked up like a fort, and I don't know how difficult it would be to visit people in there- or if those people would be allowed out to socialize with the rest of us (or more appropriately, perhaps, if they would be allowed back in afterwards).

I'm not so about that- while it may seem that many Christians do not want to accept, let alone interact, with those of different faiths, those are the one's with really big mouths. If anything, they're going to have a wake-up call by having the book of names slammed on their head before they go inside... or down below. But I digress- there are more tolerant and accepting Christians than those that are not, so I'm sure there would be free visitation between some areas.  

[WebenBanu]

Oh, I know about tolerant Christians^_^- I have some very good friends who are Christian, and some of them even know that I'm not. Obviously, if they were trying to convert me all the time then we wouldn't get along nearly so well. However, I was thinking back to the Old Testament reference to YHWH as a "jealous god," who couldn't stand for his followers to be interacting with anyone else. And the reference to the fort is reinforced by the imagery given of the Heavenly City of Jeruselem which is found in- I think- Revelations? Or was it Luke? So what I mean here is in reference to the nature of the deity and relevant scriptural references, and not just the followers. It doesn't seem that he would want them to associate outside the flock. Though I do wonder sometimes about how much of a paradise Heaven could be, if one were cut off from seeing one's friends and family- not to mention if one knew or thought that they were in Hell! But you're probably right about there being some open areas, and I could be totally wrong about this. I meant no offense, though I realize that this is a touchy area. I apologize if I've upset you!  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

i tend to think that whatever the mid really think will happen, probably will. You create your own afterlife.  

[Fallen Angels Kiss]

hm...never put very much thought into the matter, been too caught up with life....

At any rate, I believe that the afterlife is a myth that we have created in our minds. It probably exists, it probably doesn't. no one will ever know. if there is an afterlife, the dead can't tell us, unless you know a medium or someone similar.  

[Jameta]

WebenBanu

Oh, I know about tolerant Christians^_^- I have some very good friends who are Christian, and some of them even know that I'm not. Obviously, if they were trying to convert me all the time then we wouldn't get along nearly so well. However, I was thinking back to the Old Testament reference to YHWH as a "jealous god," who couldn't stand for his followers to be interacting with anyone else. And the reference to the fort is reinforced by the imagery given of the Heavenly City of Jeruselem which is found in- I think- Revelations? Or was it Luke? So what I mean here is in reference to the nature of the deity and relevant scriptural references, and not just the followers. It doesn't seem that he would want them to associate outside the flock. Though I do wonder sometimes about how much of a paradise Heaven could be, if one were cut off from seeing one's friends and family- not to mention if one knew or thought that they were in Hell! But you're probably right about there being some open areas, and I could be totally wrong about this. I meant no offense, though I realize that this is a touchy area. I apologize if I've upset you!

Well, the holes in that argument, for me, is that YHWH mellows out in the New Testament, and that there two books of Revelations. The one that is in the Canon is there so the Church could maintain control throughout the ages.  

[Morrigan78]

Nihilistic Seraph

i tend to think that whatever the mid really think will happen, probably will. You create your own afterlife.

I completly agree. I think that people who think they're going to hell will end up there, and people who think they're going to heven will end up there. I want to go to the summerland and await my next incarnation, so that's where I'll go. wink