The Power of Language

[PoeticVengeance]

This subject came up in the witchcraft thread and I realized that I had entered into a really interesting topic.

The Power of Language

*On the subject of using old languages like Latin, Greek, Runic languages, Celtic, etc etc to use magic more effective, either in Rituals or otherwise.*

I wonder sometimes if its not so much that a specific language contains power, but more that its the ontology of language itself.

Words can take on some of the essence of what they describe, and really kind of have to in order to be an effective means of communication at all. I've oftentimes read something, and realized that I didn't so much read and comprehend a word but felt like aspects of what the word describes was written out on the page.

Using pictographic symbols for a language kind of adds to that ontology too. So when one uses Egyptian Hieroglyphs and Japanese Kanji (or their Chinese roots) it evokes a great deal more of the reality contained within the word or phrase.

This could be as simple as creating a state of mind far more conducive to manipulating the magic related to these Aspects (or forces for you folks) or even directly invoking the energy if this power of language carries magical force in itself.

It made me wonder if whether the medium of film (which is very good at absorbing reality and encasing it) could be used to create this same condition, but then I realized that some of the trust is lost by the ability to manipulate film on its more basic level.

One can stage photographs or pretend something is happening in a video. But language is simple and basic enough that it can't be manipulated as easily in its essence, unless the meanings of the words themselves are changed.

(This might become an ED thread soon, keep your eyes open for it ^^)

For Discussion: What do you consider the source of the power of language? If you agree with my ideas on it, then express why.  

[Starlock]

Let us know when you pop this up in ED... I might drop in to contribute if I've got the time.

The power of words is actually one of the laws of magic proposed by Isaac Bonewitz, who has published one of the most thorough breakdowns of the laws of magic available (perhaps THE most thorough I haven't encountered anything else in its class yet). In his diagram, the power of words is a sublaw contained within the broader law of association. The law of association basically states that when things have aspects in common with one another, they can exert an influence. Labels and words do just such a thing. We mentally associate a word and label with a particular concept, and by naming it we both have power over the thing named and the thing named has power over us.

Here's an important point, I think, in looking at this. Ideas are real. Even if a particular word isn't describing something most of us consider to be in the 'real' world, the idea behind the word is very, very real. Ideas, debatedly, have more influence over people than aspects of the physical world. Human modivation often starts with an idea, a word-concept we have in our head. Just think of all the powerful things that started as ideas: all the world's religions, all the world's political structures, the entirety of the sciences... it all started as idea. Just because it is intangeable doesn't mean it isn't powerful.

This is especially so with words. Those in the past undestood better, I think, the power of words. A woman in the early American colonies might be branded as a witch for having too forceful a tongue, for the power of words was not lost upon the settlers. To speak bad things of people is to give the idea of them being bad more power. What is spoken can become self-fullfilling prophecy, and through that, become truth.

... I'm starting to get rambly at this point so I'll stop now. Too much to say on this topic. >.<  

[twilight insanity]

i believe that words and the usage of them is a way of creating the bonds to the world one has. speaking creates a bond with something. you direct this connection with whatever you deem the subject or target. nameing does forge a link and bond that grants power over the named thing, and gives it power over you, and speaking about anything does the same. i know this may seem like an odd thing i am about to say next, but.... i would suggest reading a manga called loveless.  

[Starlock]

twilight insanity

i believe that words and the usage of them is a way of creating the bonds to the world one has. speaking creates a bond with something. you direct this connection with whatever you deem the subject or target. nameing does forge a link and bond that grants power over the named thing, and gives it power over you, and speaking about anything does the same. i know this may seem like an odd thing i am about to say next, but.... i would suggest reading a manga called loveless.

Interesting perspective, especially the part I boldfaced. Folks seem to overlook this part of the bargain. Knowledge may be power, but it goes in both directions, not just in one.  

[twilight insanity]

Starlock

twilight insanity

i believe that words and the usage of them is a way of creating the bonds to the world one has. speaking creates a bond with something. you direct this connection with whatever you deem the subject or target. nameing does forge a link and bond that grants power over the named thing, and gives it power over you, and speaking about anything does the same. i know this may seem like an odd thing i am about to say next, but.... i would suggest reading a manga called loveless.

Interesting perspective, especially the part I boldfaced. Folks seem to overlook this part of the bargain. Knowledge may be power, but it goes in both directions, not just in one.

yes, indeed. that's why you can't fear being controled. because even with that domination you have control as well. power struggles are just signs of ignorance and fear. you always have a choice. the power is in convincing the other that your way is right an dthat his way doesn't exist. as long as you have a sense f self you will always be the more powerfull.  

[Goddess Hekate]

Hmm intreresting.
If you think about it for a second naming something means to acknowledge it's existance. What is more interesting is we don't only have words for things, we have words for actions and most exceptional we have words for abstracts, such as emotions and other things we cannot touch, see or feel(physically)

Certainly the mere acknowledgement gives something power, I think most people agree that something nameless and unknown is without power.  

[Starlock]

Hard to say wether or not the nameless is without power. It probably depends. I mean, just because humanity didn't have a word for UV radiation hundreds of years ago dosen't mean we still didn't get skin cancer from exposure to it. It means the concept didn't hold power over our MINDS on a conscious level, but it still influenced us and all.  

[twilight insanity]

hmm... well, we knew it was SOMETHING, didn;t we..? o.o we probably feared it was some kind of god. one word i try not to use is "time" but i cannot escape it at times... iii-_- i realy hate time, and i do admit that i fear it, and the whole concept of it.  

[Starlock]

I dunno. I suspect our ancestors really didn't live long enough to get cancer all that much. Cancer is a very modern disease as it typically exists only in the elderly. Folks just didn't live that long in the past. Our bodies knew about it (hence the gradient of skin pigmentation from the poles to the equator), but I'm not sure our minds did. xp Heck, there was a time that - as so speculated by the authorities in the field - that the role of the male in reproduction was not known.  

[loahnuh]

Words contain immeasurable power and the ones who can manipulate that power can be seen any day. look at public speakers and figures, everyday their job requires manipulating the hearts and minds of people with words. the source of a words power is their meaning and to different people some words may convey different meanings even if they use the words like anyone else would. The most powerful words are those that describe something because we all have our own ideas on what power and beauty are and with the proper application of these words a good charismatic speaker can draw images in your minds of the things you wish most to see and wrap you will around them(best example is Hitler who gained such control over his followers that they committed the most base atrocities in his name).

now words that are used in magick is different from words used normally, the words used in magick act as a focal point and the effectiveness of some words is psychological. to the user some words in other languages may feel like they have more power but it is your belief in that they have the power to begin with that gives them their power.

words are tools voice is how we wield them, the word itself is unbiased and can be used for good or evil, it is the one who wields the words that gives them their power.  

[Goddess Hekate]

Starlock

Hard to say wether or not the nameless is without power. It probably depends. I mean, just because humanity didn't have a word for UV radiation hundreds of years ago dosen't mean we still didn't get skin cancer from exposure to it. It means the concept didn't hold power over our MINDS on a conscious level, but it still influenced us and all.

I should probably have said that I meant it mentally doesn't influence us unless we give it a name. sweatdrop As that was what I meant.

On the other hand words also spring up to show the shape of ones reality.
Like inuites have many different words for different kinds of snow, that gives them another look on reality than say us who have two or three words for snow types, there is the soggy stuff and the fine stuff like sugar xd

There is also the beauty of irony and sarcasm, where words are not meant to have their regular meanings, but that is sometimes lost in writting (unless you use point d'ironie)  

[twilight insanity]

Goddess Hekate

Starlock

Hard to say wether or not the nameless is without power. It probably depends. I mean, just because humanity didn't have a word for UV radiation hundreds of years ago dosen't mean we still didn't get skin cancer from exposure to it. It means the concept didn't hold power over our MINDS on a conscious level, but it still influenced us and all.

I should probably have said that I meant it mentally doesn't influence us unless we give it a name. sweatdrop As that was what I meant.

On the other hand words also spring up to show the shape of ones reality.
Like inuites have many different words for different kinds of snow, that gives them another look on reality than say us who have two or three words for snow types, there is the soggy stuff and the fine stuff like sugar xd

There is also the beauty of irony and sarcasm, where words are not meant to have their regular meanings, but that is sometimes lost in writting (unless you use point d'ironie)

well, all thinsg mental and physical affect eachother...so i'd say that is irrelevent. anyway, aslo on the note of your sig, i can say that i would support the prochoiceness, if you will accept that word, as much as i can...i just simply cannot tolerate the cruel thinking though in what was said about the number of people thing... makes sense, i know..just... do not hate me when i say ignorant... >~< .... ? ok... whew!! sweatdrop alive... um... i myself am pro-choice before conception, and pro-life thereafetr, though if a woman was raped i would find it fair for her to choose completely... but even then i'd be upset, and i would not be able to help myself from being angry at and disaproving her if she would jump to the conclusion of abortion with a thought and/or care for the baby. and i would certainly NEVER allow for someone to even CONSIDER abortion as a form of birth control!! just saying, i know that you wouldn't be like that, just... i have to stick by my belief that this is a delicate matter, and shouldn;t have to be bound simply by pro-choice and pro-life. everything in life, i think, should be circumstantial. never set in stone.  

[Starlock]

Goddess Hekate

Starlock

Hard to say wether or not the nameless is without power. It probably depends. I mean, just because humanity didn't have a word for UV radiation hundreds of years ago dosen't mean we still didn't get skin cancer from exposure to it. It means the concept didn't hold power over our MINDS on a conscious level, but it still influenced us and all.

I should probably have said that I meant it mentally doesn't influence us unless we give it a name. sweatdrop As that was what I meant.

On the other hand words also spring up to show the shape of ones reality.
Like inuites have many different words for different kinds of snow, that gives them another look on reality than say us who have two or three words for snow types, there is the soggy stuff and the fine stuff like sugar xd

There is also the beauty of irony and sarcasm, where words are not meant to have their regular meanings, but that is sometimes lost in writting (unless you use point d'ironie)

Okay... I guess I misread what you meant then. whee Sort of like unless you name 'evil' it has less influence on you as a concept and way of seeing/categorizing things.

But uh... how by the Spirits can you be pro-choice before conception and pro-life after? Doesn't that...er... for all important purposes make you pro-life? (is confused)  

[twilight insanity]

i believe simply that if a woman wants to have a baby she can do that, and if she doesn't than she better use contraception or jsut not have sexual intercoarse. -.- sides. there are other ways to make love. ever heard of oral? sheesh!! never would i find it acceptible to abandon a baby simply out of fear of childbirth or motherhood when the act that caused it was entirely intentional.  

[luciferi nocturnum]

i believe the power in most laungages isn't so much in the laungage it's spoken in considering you can get the same effect from english that u can from something like angelic or enochian. it's all really a matter of what you say.though with something like angelic it works better if it's written then spoken,and enochian works better if you acknowledge where it came from and use it specificaly for things like vengeance,wealth,and more of the human wants then needs.but it never hurts to know a dead laungage or two for that little extra boost in energy. i found runic and theban work well on the samhain.