Not strictly goth related but....

[Rellik San]

Hardcore Gamers, probably the only sub-culture the other ones don't acknowledge for what it is. Its more then just playing a lot of video games, its playing all games, getting in depth into the games mythos, learning all you can about it, even supporting your favourite games by purchasing apparel.

But thats not why I bring it up, the reason I bring it up, is all the major school shootings, Columbine, V-Tech etc. The people involved were all supposedly goths, which sent the sub-cultures of goth and its supporters into uproar, so then blame fell squarely onto the shoulders of people like me... Gamers, Hardcore Gamers at that, did the sub-cultures give a roar... a shout in our defense... by and large... no. Not so much as a squeak, yet we get the same, probably more flak for our life style choices because other cultures won't defend us.

But thats not all, all the other sub-cultures look down on us as geeks, outcasts from even the supposed outcasts, and why? Because our form of escapism isn't as dignified as everyone else's? But even worse, for a lot of sub-cultures, the detractors are by and large dismissed as being fundamentalist nut jobs, either too far left, or too far right. Gaming is permanently under a very serious threat, not unlike the threat the goth used to be under... only difference is, after 30 years, that threat is still a major concern in gaming and we get flak from both lefties and righties, with only one organisation to represent our consumer and political rights. Unlike with things like goth and metal, the culture can't be carried by fans alone, it needs support, so please, next time your registering your disgust with a news article about goths, give a thought about gamers and remember whilst its clothe stores and music store sections at risk from the article, for gamers an article like that is our entire life style at risk.

Thanks everyone. Remember, we support you guys, you support us, because what ever your blamed for, they'll find a way to back lash it to us.

-Rellik San member of the ECA  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

Well, having been a fairly heavy gamer before in my life, I wouldn't consider them to be lower than others; hell, there are probably many more people in this guild who are gamers or who used to be gamers.

In spirit, I support gamers; however, I've never really seen any possible rallies or such that I'd be able to attend in order to show support.  

[Calantha Josephine]

/nod. Gotta love how things work dont we. I mean for every messed up kid that does something wrong people have to blame whatever form of entertainment / subculture they may be involved in for their problems. Its actually rather pathetic to pass off a reason for complex psychological problems to be so simple as to say, "its because of video game violence" , or because "he hangs out with them goths".

I personally am both a gamer and gothic sooo, yeah. I understand / feel the annoyance from both sides.  

[Snows Wyntre]

I donno about if gamer is really a sub-culture, as the fact that I am goth, and also consider myself a gamer... In this regard, gamer is a status resulting in a pass-time. Such as I might also be called a geek for "LARPing". In retrospect, yes, I suppose the gamers of the world need more respect than the world gives them, but possibly not as a "sub-culture" per se.  

[Henneth Annun]

Calantha Josephine

/nod. Gotta love how things work dont we. I mean for every messed up kid that does something wrong people have to blame whatever form of entertainment / subculture they may be involved in for their problems. Its actually rather pathetic to pass off a reason for complex psychological problems to be so simple as to say, "its because of video game violence" , or because "he hangs out with them goths".

I personally am both a gamer and gothic sooo, yeah. I understand / feel the annoyance from both sides.

I agree, it is very pathetic and just...stupid. They're trying to simplify a very complex issue and aren't even doing it right! "It's because he plays BF2 all day" or "he's a angsty goth". They never say "there are obviuosly some underlying mental issues here that need to be examined", it's always, "let's blame two of the most misunderstood subcultures and create even more negativity toward them, and eliminate all their possible supporters so they stand alone and gradually die out."

Why can't someone get it right for once. Just because I happen to play a lot of FPS games doesn't mean I'm going to pick up an Uzi or something and start shooting up people! It's a "recreational activity" if that's what you want to call it. It's no different then six year olds playing "police men" or
army", it's a just a damn game. Everyone understand the difference between that and reality, you run into problems when people don't.

People don't get it, they stop selling the games, they aren't aloud to develop them, and bam. We're at a standstill, and it all goes downhill from there.

Goth and Gamer here, speaking to you all.  

[Divinity Rage]

I'm a tournament gamer, and I haven't shot up a school yet. All these things are just excuses to deal with a torn psyche.  

[Rellik San]

Jadyn_Fortysix

I'm a tournament gamer, and I haven't shot up a school yet. All these things are just excuses to deal with a torn psyche.

Exactly my point, millions of people play these games so the percentage that go on killing spree's is less then 0.000001% not to mention the fact for them to confuse reality with fantasy you have to be well... not all there.  

[Calantha Josephine]

Indeed, like I always say "Illiteracy Runs Rampant in the Streets!!!".
Seriously its ridiculous at how biased and narrow minded the generation(s) / group(s) of people that happen to be in power, or the majority, tend to be. Though we have our ways of ignoring / overcoming the negative influence they attempt to put on us, still does not help our public image any. Not that i am all that concerned about that. Being that i really could give a damn about how others view my friends and I, it just can be a bit... inconvenient when going to a nice place to eat or something seems to require that i not dress like myself for the night. Etc Etc Etc.

Though i sorta went a bit off track there. As far as things like, oh say, Virginia tech go. They tend to show bad signs psychologically a long time before the event happens. It just is that those who observe them have no idea how to approach the situation and tend to blame things that are not responsible for whatever trauma the person may have suffered. Whether it be a genetic chemical imbalance or some sort of traumatic experience with a domino affect depends from a case by case basis. It is just rather unfortunate that instead of looking into the causes possible they want to play blame games and not advance us at all towards being able to advance our knowledge / understanding and possibly notice / prevent such events in the future.  

[Ether-Eating Eskimo]

I agree. Most of my friends are what I consider "gamers". And I've played my fair share of video games.  

[Kaydienne]

I would have to say being a gamer actually kept me OUT of trouble growing up. I was to busy playing MMO's, console games, pen and paper games, and laarps to go out and get into trouble.

Im a hardcore gamer I suppose if you have to place a label on me so the fact that gamers get judged just as goths, wiccans, pagans, ...ect.. ect.. is just the way of the world.

And.. well I won't get started on what i think about the world and humanity in general.  

[Jarc_The_Mighty]

Rellik San

But thats not all, all the other sub-cultures look down on us as geeks, outcasts from even the supposed outcasts.

I'm not arguing here, I just wanted to say that you're not 100% right on this one. Yes, gamers are usually looked down upon by everyone, but it doesn't mean that individuals of the gaming world are. Sure, gamers as a whole are less, but as a person they can be more.

I'm not making this up either, I know this for a fact. How can I prove this, well I can't unless you take a look at my school. One kid is the BIGGEST Halo nerd you will ever see. He even admits that he's an all out Halo nerd. He camped out from 9 pm to get the first copy of Halo 3 at midnight the day it came out, and played it nonstop till he beat it in one day. Alls left is the last level which he can easily beat. Not only that, but he has mostly all the books that came out about the Halo storyline. He is a HUGE game nerd! Now, why am I bringing him up in my example? He's one of my best friends, and I'll tell you why. He's one of the most popular kids in my school. He may be President of the Video Game Club at my high school, but almost everyone loves him. Last year he was even put into the list of the Prom court for Juniors, but because the teacher that organizes it was a b***h and thought he wouldn't be able to take the pressure she pulled his name out. I know for a fact that if he was listed, EVERYONE would have voted for him to be prom king! So never second guess the gamers!  

[Jarc_The_Mighty]

Thing I've never understood is in the investigation of the VT thing, they never really blamed anything. They couldn't blame psychological problems, because only the intelligent folks did that in their reviews, but they had nothing else to. Hell, the kid talked about his Christian views, WHY DIDN'T THEY BLAME CHRISTIANITY!? Lol, I've never understood that...

To the point I'm going to make. I'mma just say it outright, I'm flipping mental. I should be taking meds, but I don't, and my friends have claimed me to be equal to the kid who now has no parents and is most likely to bring a gun to school. If I do snap and decide to kill anyone I can, I'm just going to write a letter, but this one will be a statement to the investigators. I will explain to them that videogames did not do this, because they were what relieved what stress I had that led to this...so they actually helped me prolong when my breakdown was. It wasn't the juggalo family, because the values of the clowns says that if I do this I am not a true jugg and my killing spree is unrelated. Finally, I'll just list anything else I can think of and tell them that they didn't cause this because it was my way of expression and this was just cause I got tired of people not listening to me and how I express myself.  

[Henneth Annun]

Jarc_The_Mighty

Thing I've never understood is in the investigation of the VT thing, they never really blamed anything. They couldn't blame psychological problems, because only the intelligent folks did that in their reviews, but they had nothing else to. Hell, the kid talked about his Christian views, WHY DIDN'T THEY BLAME CHRISTIANITY!? Lol, I've never understood that...

To the point I'm going to make. I'mma just say it outright, I'm flipping mental. I should be taking meds, but I don't, and my friends have claimed me to be equal to the kid who now has no parents and is most likely to bring a gun to school. If I do snap and decide to kill anyone I can, I'm just going to write a letter, but this one will be a statement to the investigators. I will explain to them that videogames did not do this, because they were what relieved what stress I had that led to this...so they actually helped me prolong when my breakdown was. It wasn't the juggalo family, because the values of the clowns says that if I do this I am not a true jugg and my killing spree is unrelated. Finally, I'll just list anything else I can think of and tell them that they didn't cause this because it was my way of expression and this was just cause I got tired of people not listening to me and how I express myself.

If they blamed Christianity, that would piss off a very large portion of America, not to mention the world. The police, reporters, and investigators might have been christian for the larger part, and why would they blame their own religion? It was just safer for them to blame the minorties, and more expected too.