NEW POLL - Update Sub Rules?

[nitnit]

Ok, I've realized that there could be a LOT of problems with the current substitute system.

Current major potential problems:

- Leaders calling in subs towards the end of the week, when the player being subbed for was inactive, and now the player who was active has to hustle to battle him towards the very end. This is very unfair to active players who actually followed along and was online daily.

- Abuse of subs. If a leader sees that one of his lesser skilled players is up against someone more skilfull, he may switch him out for a more skilled player to try to win that match. This is unfair to the player being switched out, his opponent, and both teams - it also bypasses the matchmaking system to a degree


Possible solutions:


A - Make it so each sub has to be called by the Tuesday of the week. ((Matchups are made saturday night, posted 11:59PM or close to it - battles are due by the very end of that upcoming friday)) This makes it so a captain needs to determine which of his players are active, and decide who is replacing who in a timely manner.


B - Change the Tuesday in option A to another day of the week ((post your opinion))


C - Make it so calling in a sub is equivocal to switching out a player. Captains can only do this on Saturday, or in advance for the upcoming week. This prevents abuse of subs, and encourages all members of a team to be active. Unlike switching out members however, captains do not need the consent of the members being switched. ((Switching in/out someone who was not originally on the team still does though))




Pros of A:

- Allows more flexibility
- Gives some definition to when subs need to be in

Cons of A:

- Still allows for sub abuse


Pros/Cons of B ((see above except the earlier the date the less flexibility/less abuse))



Pros of C:

- Prevents abuse of subs
- Keeps match ups the way they are made


Cons of C

- Less flexibility in case of emergency.



Opinions please  

[Artemis Wolfe]

I like option B, making it Wednesday instead Tuesday, just because it gives slightly more time. Perhaps even if it was both, for example:

Team 1 has a problem with one of the members, and they can't battle. So, on Tuesday at 11:59 pm, they say they want to sub one of their players.

Team 2 says, "Ah crap, they pinned their better player against our weaker one." But they found out at 7:30 am on Wednesday. They should then have until 11:59 pm to possibly substitute their player.

Or something like that.  

[nitnit]

This also allows even more time of leaders abusing their subs neutral  

[Artemis Wolfe]

Not if you only give them one time to replace someone.  

[Artemis Wolfe]

Oh wait, couldn't you randomly generate the sub's?  

[nitnit]

What do you mean? If you allow people to switch in their subs every week, they might use that to switch in a stronger player if they feel it is needed.  

[Zombie7775]

I like option B but I say make it earlier. Monday in my opinion would be better.
That gives them a weekend day and a weekday. 2 days to change their team. Less time to abuse their subs. The people on the team should be responsible to tell the captain by then if they won't be able to battle during the week.  

[nitnit]

Still allows them to abuse subs, although I'll agree it's significantly less.  

[darkslasherX]

I think option C makes the most sense. That way, captains would want to keep their best players on the team as often as they can, and the captains can correspond with the players a few days before the match-ups are made to determine whether they will be active. I think subs should only be used to keep activity up, and not to give an unfair advantage to the team, and that's why option C makes the most sense. Some exceptions should be allowed, in cases of emergency, but as a general rule, subs should be declared before match-ups.  

[Dwlr]

I would go with A, but I personally would add a cluase that allows subs anytime on consent of the opposing captain aswell.  

[Mesa the Wanderer]

I like option b, make it Wednesday, for the reasons Artemis mentioned.

The thing with sub abuse is that inorder for a captain to be able to "abuse" one of their substitutes, then that would mean 2 things need to be true of the teams in question.

1. The sub has to be stronger than the main member they are replacing. Since most captains would logically choose their stonger players as their main members it's unlikely for the sub to be that much better than a main member, however it is still possible.

2. The captain deciding who to sub, would need extensive knowledge on the opposing team. True if they notice one of their weaker members against one of the opponents stronger members they could simply sub out, but then you're assuming that the captain of one team knows which members of the opposing team are the strong members and which are the weak members.  

[nitnit]

Ok, so far

1 Captain ((mesa the wanderer)) has voted for option B with Wednesday as the Variable

2 Captains ((nitnit and darkslasher)) have voted for option C

1 Captain ((TheBasementDweller)) has voted for option A  

[Dwlr]

Mesa the Wanderer

I like option b, make it Wednesday, for the reasons Artemis mentioned.

The thing with sub abuse is that inorder for a captain to be able to "abuse" one of their substitutes, then that would mean 2 things need to be true of the teams in question.

1. The sub has to be stronger than the main member they are replacing. Since most captains would logically choose their stonger players as their main members it's unlikely for the sub to be that much better than a main member, however it is still possible.

2. The captain deciding who to sub, would need extensive knowledge on the opposing team. True if they notice one of their weaker members against one of the opponents stronger members they could simply sub out, but then you're assuming that the captain of one team knows which members of the opposing team are the strong members and which are the weak members.

Response to point 1. It actually makes the most sense to have your sub in actuality be the 2nd best on your team that way you can match them up at your leisure for an easy win or even a defensive to make an easy win for them now be contested.

Response to point 2. It's pretty easy to figure out your opponent team to an extent, but most switch it up though they still keep regulars which you can gather from a little bit of digging throught the guild and here say from the other members. Spies. ninja rofl

Basically if a team was avid about winning they're subs would be the best on thier team and they'd switch in to make for easy wins, the smartest Captains would in actuallity have one of thier "members" say they are the captain so that the actual best which is generally the captain is in actuality a sub and can be switched in against a moderate opponent say number 3 on the other team and forfeit the matches versus the opposing team's number 1 and 2 and just worry about picking off the weakest links on the opposing team for the best 3 out of 5 round victory, but judging by the lack of interest in the tourny by the actually captains in terms of actual team "strategy" I seriously doubt any one of you captains would care to think about the issue in such a way that it would be borderline breaking the rules by in actuality just exploiting the rules and never once was it said the captain must be the best on the team though assumedly most of the teams followed the general chain of command trend. rofl I've seriously got to stop talking to myself. sweatdrop  

[Chaotix Bluix]

In my personal opinion, option B seems to be the best course of action since there bound to be some problems in contacting our teammates. By having the cut off date on Monday, it should give a reasonable amount of time for the players to have things sorted ahead of time. sweatdrop  

[Mesa the Wanderer]

TheBasementDweller

Mesa the Wanderer

I like option b, make it Wednesday, for the reasons Artemis mentioned.

The thing with sub abuse is that inorder for a captain to be able to "abuse" one of their substitutes, then that would mean 2 things need to be true of the teams in question.

1. The sub has to be stronger than the main member they are replacing. Since most captains would logically choose their stonger players as their main members it's unlikely for the sub to be that much better than a main member, however it is still possible.

2. The captain deciding who to sub, would need extensive knowledge on the opposing team. True if they notice one of their weaker members against one of the opponents stronger members they could simply sub out, but then you're assuming that the captain of one team knows which members of the opposing team are the strong members and which are the weak members.

Response to point 1. It actually makes the most sense to have your sub in actuality be the 2nd best on your team that way you can match them up at your leisure for an easy win or even a defensive to make an easy win for them now be contested.

Response to point 2. It's pretty easy to figure out your opponent team to an extent, but most switch it up though they still keep regulars which you can gather from a little bit of digging throught the guild and here say from the other members. Spies. ninja rofl

Basically if a team was avid about winning they're subs would be the best on thier team and they'd switch in to make for easy wins, the smartest Captains would in actuallity have one of thier "members" say they are the captain so that the actual best which is generally the captain is in actuality a sub and can be switched in against a moderate opponent say number 3 on the other team and forfeit the matches versus the opposing team's number 1 and 2 and just worry about picking off the weakest links on the opposing team for the best 3 out of 5 round victory, but judging by the lack of interest in the tourny by the actually captains in terms of actual team "strategy" I seriously doubt any one of you captains would care to think about the issue in such a way that it would be borderline breaking the rules by in actuality just exploiting the rules and never once was it said the captain must be the best on the team though assumedly most of the teams followed the general chain of command trend. rofl I've seriously got to stop talking to myself. sweatdrop

both of your counterpoints are completely valid, i'll admit. however aren't the battles between the teams also randomly generated? with the exception of captain vs. captain. if you were to do that then your 2nd counterpoint becomes completely pointless.


Also i was under the assumption that the point of having a substitute was so that if someone unexpectedly couldn't battle, for whatever reason a sub could fill in. Whether it's because there parent's didn't pay the internet, their DS was accidently broken or whatever. By going with option C you force captains to decide on subs on that saturday, before the matchups even happen. if something were to happen to one of the members even one day after and they were unable to battle for reasons out of their control, that team is no forced a loss, when they have a substitute perfectly willing and able to battle.

also this poll is flawed. option's A and B are too similar, this almost ensures that C will win the poll. the votes between a and b will be split up even though it's pretty much the exact same idea, so neither one really has a chance to win.