Baby Bats vs Elitists

[xStephanx]

So, whose side do you take, or think they're all idiots?

Here's the competitors:

Baby-bats You know them, you've seen them. Marilyn Manson T-shirts, Cradle of Filth albums and black skater clothes and a splash of Goth makeup. They may boast of their Gothdom to their friends, parents and online. The catch? None of them seem to listen to actual Goth rock, or death rock, or darkwave... or EBM... or industrial... they're as seperate from the scene as can be. But under the guidance of Kerang! Magazine, they claim Goth while listening to Disturbed with the other metalheads (most all of them are metalheads in reality). Most of them will grow up to discover the scene, then either move into it or go on to become metalheads, punks or nothing of the sort. Which is fine, of course!

Elitists On the other extreme we have elitists, people who simply will not tolerate the baby-bat. In some cases they won't even tolerate other veteran Goths who slip up and like the 'wrong' sort of band. Most of them at least have the decency to practise what they preach and listen to the 'real' Goth scene - bands like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Ghost of Lemora, etc - and maybe splash it with death rock, darkwave and industrial and such. The sad part is, most of them spend so long looking down their nose at the people ignorant of the actual scene that they forget that it might help to, you know, take them on board. Bring them to the gigs and clubs, let them into the circle and watch them grow?

Middle-ground People like me who have experienced so much of both crowds that they're jaded. As I've said before, I'm old (23). I've been doing these gigs and clubs for several years. I've met a guy who dressed vaguely Goth, listened to pop punk and nu-metal and claimed to be a Goth, and I've met snotty Goth-club regulars who sneer in disgust at the metal kids who turn up confused. Its all quite amusing from the outside. I do tend to direct baby-bats I meet into listening to the some Goth rock (or at least EBM and industrial), and I tend to tell the elitists to chill the ******** out when they get assy at me for being more into the futurepop, EBM and industrial end of the scene.

So, where'd you place yourself?

EDIT: Made some changes because I felt I was being too harsh on baby-bats.  

[XXX Zombie Porn]

I'm not really any of them.
The most 'goth' I get is I've got black hair, dark eye make up, some big boots and my favourite band's Type O Negative.

When I saw Marilyn Manson there was this really cute little kid there about 7 or 8 in new rocks and eye liner.  

[Rellik San]

Moot point for me, I'm not goth... ok I'm part goth, but thats on a genetic level. smile  

[xStephanx]

I'm not elitist. If you're into metal and into the Goth scene, then you're claim to be Goth sounds fine to me.

Sometimes I don't even claim to be Goth, just cyber. That's how I dodge the elitists.  

[MediaclCunt]

I actually had a babybat call me a poser before on Xanga. She listened to all Nu-Metal and thought that made her Goth so when she saw I didn't listen to what she considered "dark", she was like, "Oh my God. You're such a ******** fake." and she started talking about how Goth and hardcore she was.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

Waitwaitwait, is this some kind of competition?

Anyway, I'd probably say middle-ground. But I admit that occasionally I turn elitist when a mallgoth/baby-bat/spooky kid firmly claims that their perception of goth is correct and that I'm a poseur - like MediaclCunt's scenario.  

[xStephanx]

-Resurrected Writer-

Waitwaitwait, is this some kind of competition?

Anyway, I'd probably say middle-ground. But I admit that occasionally I turn elitist when a mallgoth/baby-bat/spooky kid firmly claims that their perception of goth is correct and that I'm a poseur - like MediaclCunt's scenario.

I had one deny the existence of Gothic rock to me once. It was amusing.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

xStephanx

-Resurrected Writer-

Waitwaitwait, is this some kind of competition?

Anyway, I'd probably say middle-ground. But I admit that occasionally I turn elitist when a mallgoth/baby-bat/spooky kid firmly claims that their perception of goth is correct and that I'm a poseur - like MediaclCunt's scenario.

I had one deny the existence of Gothic rock to me once. It was amusing.

The Goth Rock thread in the music forum gets that on occasion gonk lol  

[xStephanx]

-Resurrected Writer-

The Goth Rock thread in the music forum gets that on occasion gonk lol

Its worse than we thought - punk doesn't exist either, its all in our heads! Music started with Marilyn Manson!

And thanks, I'm going to check that thread now. I kinda skipped it because I've seen similar 101's around the internet, and there was no new bands on the first page.  

[ShadowLotus]

Mmmm I guess I'm middle-ground but do lean more toward elite. I do not mind 'baby bats' as long as they're innocent in their lack of knowledge. Meaning they don't know better but are willing to learn. I find them quite cute actually, not to mention I have my own bits to learn as well.
But I do, however, take my share in getting pissed at the arrogant ones that act like they know everything, don't know what goth rock is, and shout to the world how more goth they are than everyone else. And yes I get annoyed when they claim I am a poser . . . what's up with that anyway?
I also take share in being annoyed at elites that are snobs and act like they know everything just as much as the know-nothings do and act like they're too good for anyone else. They may know more than most but being asses about it, to me, doesn't make them any better than the know-nothings.

That's just me though, heh.

 

[Spooky Wasabi Princess]

Who cares what music people listen to? Seriously.

(You're not old- I'm 22.)  

[xStephanx]

spooky_sez

Who cares what music people listen to? Seriously.

Well, that's what the scene is about right? There's just no need for people to be dicks about it (the elitists) or to claim to be something they are ignorant of (baby-bats).  

[Disease of the Flesh]

I can really place myself in the middle-ground! I have never been a real baby-bat. Most other 'goths' at my school are. And whenever I let them listen to batcave or industrial, they just hate it. All they listen to is metal.  

[DreamerSpirit]

I get annoyed with individuals from both sides of that spectrum.

I don't mind baby bats if they are just newbies who are ignorant of what goth is. I personally was there once, and it was not all that long ago! If a baby bat shows a genuine interest in gothic culture, and just dosn't fully understand the music and fashion of it just yet, then they have my full respect.

If a baby bat has been interested in the culture for a while, but is still not quite understanding it, (ie. they still confuse metal with goth and things of that sort) then I don't mind them. As long as they're not up in anyones face about thier tastes, then I really don't mind.

However, I an infinately annoyed with the 'know it all' mallgoths. I used to know a boy of this sort. He always wanted to hang out with me and talk about music with me, simply because of how I dressed. I did chat politely with him when he came to my table during lunch, but it did irk me when he told me I'm somehow not goth because I did not like metal, and most of my music (spare a few techno, darkwave, and EBM songs) is really mellow. He also seemed shocked when I told him that I didn't like Hot Topic, because the quality of their clothing leaves a lot to be desired. If an obnoxious baby bat is going to tell me that my thrift shop dresses and Unto Ashes CDs are not nearly as gothy as thier chain-adorned Tripp pants and Cradle of Filth CDs, then I quite frankly, do not want to deal with them. It's fine if you like Manson and Hot Topic, just realize that those are not the gothiest things in all of gothdom.
Also, I don't ever want to have to deal with any of the baby bats who think that the gothic subculture somehow accepts violence. A boy of this variety had a crush on me once, and he scared me half to death.

As far as elitists go, whether or not I am alright with them all depends on the extent of thier elitism. If they're merely the type who shoo away baby bats of the obnoxious sort, then I understand them, and are fine with that. However, they type of goths who think that newbies to the gothic subculture, or anyone who dosn't listen to all of the 'right' music or know the complete and unabridged history of goth by heart, are simply not goth, annoy me. Though it is good to have some unfying factors within a subculture, it is not good to exclude 99.9% of the population of the said subculture based on nit-pickey qualifications.  

[-Isel-]

I don't see the point in either "side". If you can identify with either, I'd say you're trying too hard. I'm not middle-ground, I'm a conscientious objector to the entire "situation".

I'm the kind of guy that'll only get as active in it as to correct someone when they're blatantly wrong--if it's some kind of semantic, I won't get involved, don't care.

At one point, I did identify with the "baby bat" thing, but that was just a fleeting phase as I was still trying to find what I was comfortable with.