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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:55 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:59 am
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dark__sunshin Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:40 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:42 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:22 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:37 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:38 am
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:23 am
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tassan Ratri_Cat
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته it's no different than the watchmaker story. i don't find it to be a very convincing argument.
that is because you did not get it??
brief version of the Watchmaker story You land on a desert island. There is no human life on the island. You discover a pocket watch lying in the sand. Obviously well made, and continues to work. Now this thing did not appear out of chance, it was made by a Creator. It did not take millions of years for the watch to exist but rather however long it took for the watchmaker to create it and for it to get to the island. Such complex, beautiful object was not created by chance."
Like the other story, this story too claims that nothing can happen by chance. That something has to orchestrate such a complex process.
However, just because it seems too fantastical for you to believe that evolution/things that exist in the world without God's hand in it, doesn't mean that it is for athiests.
You can go back to physics, anthropology and see that evolution goes perfectly well. The Big Bang is just a THEORY in science. It has a possibility of being wrong. Just not enough evidence has been complied to contradict the info. The big bang theory was actually started by a catholic priest. In physics we learned that theory...and added the tidbit that God caused the Big Bang and evolution. However, as scientists are still looking for a 'proveable', materialistic cause.
And with the story that was originally posted, both the muslim and the professor are putting their faith into the unknown. The Muslim puts his faith in God, while very nice concept, not convincing to one who wants materialistic proof than the general "look at the world bit". The professor, though he puts his faith in strictly the big bang, has a provable, materialistic concept. Now what started the big bang is another bucket of fish entirely
Here is another story I learned.
the unknown gardener Two people were walking in a forest. Plants and trees were growing wild. However, they stumbled upon a collection of plants and extraordinarily beautiful flowers. Suprisingly, it looked like a well-tended garden. But there was no human in sight.Or signs of human life around near it. One man said, "what a beautiful garden! I can't believe these things happen by chance!" Another man said, "the gardener is truly masterful. I want to see him." His friend turns to him and says, "Look around you! How can this be tended by a gardner? There is no sign of footprints around the plants, there is no house, there is nothing to show that someone has been here! How can you be so sure?" The man just shrugged and said, "I believe"
In this story, religion is a matter of belief in something that cannot be proven that exists. It is a perception of how the world works and functions.
Science sees it through material evidence, religious folk go off of belief and traditions.
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:12 pm
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Haydar the Truthful If there's no believe in God in their souls, what do you expect to happen when we die? Just rot in the ground?
Yes. We live and we die, that's all there is to it. No unearthly consequences for actions in the afterlife. That's what atheists expect to happen.
Haydar the Truthful Atheists and Nonbelievers of all sorts have died in several Civilizations across this Planet we call Earth, and they simply say it was a Natural Disaster? Yeah right, thats why EVERYONE EXCEPT the believers died right? (Several Verses of the Qur'an Approve of this).
First rule of debate in religious vs nonreligious:
sacred writings do not hold evidence when debating about the existence of God. Because in order to believe that these writings have any truth to them...you have to believe in God. Which is exactly opposite of what an atheist believes. So there's no point in bringing up the Qu'ran, the Bible, the Verdas, whatever.
You need better evidence.
Haydar the Truthful Not believing in Allah is like saying "It's a Win/Win situation so I'll go with neither" You might as well believe.
The theory goes like this:
If you believe in God, and he does exist, you are eternally rewarded.
If you DO NOT believe in God, and he does exist, you are damned for all eternity.
If You believe in God and He doesn't exist, then at least you lead a moral life.
If you DO NOT believe in God, and he doesn't exist, you're one helluva guesser and there are no consequences.
So you have 1/4 chance of being right by not believing in God. The odds are in your favor if you do believe in God.
However this theory is flawed. If you would like for me to elaborate on it, I will.
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:53 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:55 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:17 pm
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XeroRyn Ratri_Cat
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته it's no different than the watchmaker story. i don't find it to be a very convincing argument. first thing is...i love children...i believe children is the foundation of islamic future i know how to make a goof argument and so on but be aware ratri...here in gaia most of them are kids i want to teach them about god that they can able to understand easily and excite them you never know that this non-believer 'attack' our children it may start with a cartoon form, now exist a lot of those improper cartoon teaching those kids a lot of improper way you cannot use your kind of argument to kids....be lightful dear kids really love story like mine they dont need to think hard what do you want to answer your son when he said 'mommy...my friend said their no such thing as god...because we cannot see it, where is god?? or 'mommy is god is there why doesnt he protected me when my friend bullied me? i want to gather stories like mine and your garden story to tell my kids next time and my student to come.....that is why i post this thread to fight atheist the simplest way p/s after finished my degree im going to be a primary teacher =) amiiin
when I was younger, 12, 13, I wanted to know more than a a simple story about proving God exists.
These are teenagers we are talking about here. young teens, preteens, but old enough to question and become full of doubt.
The Catholic Church used to have something called "Confirmation" it happened when we (they changed the age, which really ticked me off) were young, about that age. It was a way of allowing one to become "an adult" in the Church, because it is believed that the Holy Spirit entered you and became a stronger guide on your own path of faith.
It was traditionally given around this time because young people were beginning to have their own doubts about their faith. They're not just dependent on mommy and daddy anymore, they're beginning to grow up. to strengthen the foundation of faith given by the parents, each young person was given the sacrement after a series of religious classes to help strenghten them and make them more aware of what they are about to recieve.
My point being, we're not dealing with young 8 year olds...young people. People ready to seek their own way to fulfill their beliefs and desires. With the way society is today, you really need to be on your toes when dealing with an atheist. Atheism, from what I have seen and percieved, begins to be an issue when the kid gains more of independent thought.
I'd perfer to have a stronger argument for my kids that is reasonable.
Atheism has been prevalent around society since the dawn of man. It is another way of looking at the world. I don't see it about anything to "fight" about.
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:18 pm
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Ratri_Cat XeroRyn Ratri_Cat
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته it's no different than the watchmaker story. i don't find it to be a very convincing argument. first thing is...i love children...i believe children is the foundation of islamic future i know how to make a goof argument and so on but be aware ratri...here in gaia most of them are kids i want to teach them about god that they can able to understand easily and excite them you never know that this non-believer 'attack' our children it may start with a cartoon form, now exist a lot of those improper cartoon teaching those kids a lot of improper way you cannot use your kind of argument to kids....be lightful dear kids really love story like mine they dont need to think hard what do you want to answer your son when he said 'mommy...my friend said their no such thing as god...because we cannot see it, where is god?? or 'mommy is god is there why doesnt he protected me when my friend bullied me? i want to gather stories like mine and your garden story to tell my kids next time and my student to come.....that is why i post this thread to fight atheist the simplest way p/s after finished my degree im going to be a primary teacher =) amiiin
when I was younger, 12, 13, I wanted to know more than a a simple story about proving God exists.
These are teenagers we are talking about here. young teens, preteens, but old enough to question and become full of doubt.
The Catholic Church used to have something called "Confirmation" it happened when we (they changed the age, which really ticked me off) were young, about that age. It was a way of allowing one to become "an adult" in the Church, because it is believed that the Holy Spirit entered you and became a stronger guide on your own path of faith.
It was traditionally given around this time because young people were beginning to have their own doubts about their faith. They're not just dependent on mommy and daddy anymore, they're beginning to grow up. to strengthen the foundation of faith given by the parents, each young person was given the sacrement after a series of religious classes to help strenghten them and make them more aware of what they are about to recieve.
My point being, we're not dealing with young 8 year olds...young people. People ready to seek their own way to fulfill their beliefs and desires. With the way society is today, you really need to be on your toes when dealing with an atheist. Atheism, from what I have seen and percieved, begins to be an issue when the kid gains more of independent thought.
I'd perfer to have a stronger argument for my kids that is reasonable.
Atheism has been prevalent around society since the dawn of man. It is another way of looking at the world. I don't see it about anything to "fight" about.
well is human the same?? is your doubt the same with others?
im going to find the book that i borrowed 2 year ago, inspired me and tell you a story in it....
about conversation between our prophet and other religious people
the book was written in our language..entitled the science of god in islam |
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:14 pm
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XeroRyn well is human the same?? is your doubt the same with others? im going to find the book that i borrowed 2 year ago, inspired me and tell you a story in it.... about conversation between our prophet and other religious people the book was written in our language..entitled the science of god in islam
I'm not comparing myself to the human race. It's based on observations I've seen time and time again.
It is particularly noticible in Catholic schools. Many kids want to abandon their faith for various reasons, most of them selfish, but there are a few that do truly turn atheist (most do it for shock value...it's just a rebellious stage)
Being raised in a home where religion was oppressed on me, I can see why someone would want to doubt that their faith in God is a good thing.
Science, I believe, would be a far better way to deal with angry atheists. Most just want to be left alone and not have people's religions shoved down their throats. But just as there are fundamentalists who make the rest of the religion look bad, there are ultra-atheists that will verbally abuse, assault and ridicule those who are religious. Personally for me, after studying the cell and how it functions, as well as the development of a fetus...is really an act of God. I find that far more convincing than philosophical tales. |
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