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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:01 am
Seriously guys, what are you going to do to fix the face of Islam?
You guys complain about the Western media bias that makes Muslims look bad, but you know what? It's YOU PEOPLE.
What are you guys going to do to fix the problem?
To be honest, there's a lot of people that are willing to see Islam as another form of worshiping God that might seem a little strange to us non-Muslims, but we see you as good, God-fearing folk. AKA WE DON"T THINK YOU'RE EVIL EXCEPT THE WEIRDO FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS.
However, I am ticked off at articles I've seen from sites that aren't as biased as you think. All I keep on hearing is that MUSLIM MEN ARE CHAUVINIST BASTARDS.
Seriously, Muslim women are getting reconstructive surgery to "restore their virginity". That's utter bullshit to me. First off, the hymen, once commonly used around the world as physical proof of a woman's chastity, is costing women thousands of dollars to surgically fix. You know what? That lil piece of skin is so freakin flimsy, that premarital sex is not the only way to tear it! As a female, you can do it while biking, running, swimming, ect. And women are paying thousands of dollars so they do not get cast aside or hurt upon their wedding night because of a stupid membrane that's so easy to tear in everyday life! Most of the time that's the reason why it tears!
Get with the program, people! There's a modern world ahead of you guys.
Regardless or not of media bias, the actions still exist and are still in practice in Muslim communities.
Shall I list the major one? It usually is directed against...WOMEN.
Father strangles daughter because he does not want to her to divorce her husband in an arranged marriage
How about honor killings in...MUSLIM COUNTRIES.
Rant with information ended.
So, what are you guys going to do about it? Catholics managed to get their boy-molesting priests under control and have stamped out most of the fires.
Are rules in Islam going to change? Are you guys going to learn how to co-exist with the modern world?
How are you going to deal with archaic traditions that hurt people and preserving your faith?
DISCUSS:
how are muslims going to fix the face of islam? How are you going to separate yourselves from the chauvinistic b*****d/weak woman-terrorist image?
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:06 am
this is my simplest opinion
1st is unity.........
the problem is that we have different sect that holds different foundation.....some of them causing this terrorist image
2nd is hijrah
to change our ways to cope modernisation....and to portray the true islam using modern technology or more civilised ways instead of becoming barbaric....
3rd is taqwa and iman
to hold and believe in Allah.....
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:21 pm
XeroRyn this is my simplest opinion 1st is unity......... the problem is that we have different sect that holds different foundation.....some of them causing this terrorist image
Well do you have any idea how to do this? to unify Muslims and get a correct standard universally?
This is why I like being a Catholic and having the heirarchy...we have a set doctrine and a specific way to view and interpret the Bible. These people set the standard of our faith, and while people have disagreements, which is completely understandable, a Catholic in the USA will have the same fundamental beliefs as one in Italy. Why? because we have people whom are chosen by us and God to make sure that Roman Catholicism truly is a universal religion.
XeroRyn 2nd is hijrah to change our ways to cope modernisation....and to portray the true islam using modern technology or more civilised ways instead of becoming barbaric.... XeroRyn 3rd is taqwa and iman to hold and believe in Allah.....
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:28 pm
I don't have time to read it, can you translate it to keywords what you wrote in first post?
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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:06 pm
Zaaki I don't have time to read it, can you translate it to keywords what you wrote in first post?
She wrote in big large red letters at the bottom explaining what she wants.
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:28 pm
Hmm well, Countries that do things like stone women for fortification, Punish innocent persons, And as you said strangle daughters for dating someone just shows some people who follow the path of Islam but are so arrogant that they believe their path is the only way without hearing anyone elses views, These are incorrect for a Muslim and I believe this comes from tradition of Arabs more than from Islam. Saudi Arabia as I've heard from stories my mother has told me, is So intolerant of others that they do things only people who murder/rape/steal/etc. do. The only reason they don't agree with each other is probably off the history caused by several parts of Islamic beliefs (Sunni/Shi'a conflicts still go on due to the struggle of corrupt leaders who are not based on Islam, So all these Muslims disagree and thus conflicts arise) The only way I can think of to fix this idea of conflicts of one another is to just have Just rulers and have a backed up system as the U.S has today, Although I personally disagree with how things are ran here, I think it would be better than having one overpowered guy killing innocent persons for a false cause.
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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:56 pm
Haydar the Truthful Hmm well, Countries that do things like stone women for fortification, Punish innocent persons, And as you said strangle daughters for dating someone just shows some people who follow the path of Islam but are so arrogant that they believe their path is the only way without hearing anyone elses views, These are incorrect for a Muslim and I believe this comes from tradition of Arabs more than from Islam. Saudi Arabia as I've heard from stories my mother has told me, is So intolerant of others that they do things only people who murder/rape/steal/etc. do. The only reason they don't agree with each other is probably off the history caused by several parts of Islamic beliefs (Sunni/Shi'a conflicts still go on due to the struggle of corrupt leaders who are not based on Islam, So all these Muslims disagree and thus conflicts arise) The only way I can think of to fix this idea of conflicts of one another is to just have Just rulers and have a backed up system as the U.S has today, Although I personally disagree with how things are ran here, I think it would be better than having one overpowered guy killing innocent persons for a false cause.
How do you select just rulers? There is so much corruption in the government in the Middle East that it sickens me. "just" is a subjective term. A man who kills his daughter for talking to a boy feels he is justified in doing so. We don't have universal concepts of things. everything is defined by the individual, by the community, by region and by country. Look at Turkey. Look at Egypt...then look at Saudi and look at Muslims in the USA and Europe. We all have such different concepts of what it means to be truly following Allah's path and half the time we spend it bashing other faiths, other sects of Islam when we're not praying it seems.
Where are we going to get this unity? Who would we select as a "just ruler"
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:27 am
The Dead Terrorist Achmed Haydar the Truthful Hmm well, Countries that do things like stone women for fortification, Punish innocent persons, And as you said strangle daughters for dating someone just shows some people who follow the path of Islam but are so arrogant that they believe their path is the only way without hearing anyone elses views, These are incorrect for a Muslim and I believe this comes from tradition of Arabs more than from Islam. Saudi Arabia as I've heard from stories my mother has told me, is So intolerant of others that they do things only people who murder/rape/steal/etc. do. The only reason they don't agree with each other is probably off the history caused by several parts of Islamic beliefs (Sunni/Shi'a conflicts still go on due to the struggle of corrupt leaders who are not based on Islam, So all these Muslims disagree and thus conflicts arise) The only way I can think of to fix this idea of conflicts of one another is to just have Just rulers and have a backed up system as the U.S has today, Although I personally disagree with how things are ran here, I think it would be better than having one overpowered guy killing innocent persons for a false cause.
How do you select just rulers? There is so much corruption in the government in the Middle East that it sickens me. "just" is a subjective term. A man who kills his daughter for talking to a boy feels he is justified in doing so. We don't have universal concepts of things. everything is defined by the individual, by the community, by region and by country. Look at Turkey. Look at Egypt...then look at Saudi and look at Muslims in the USA and Europe. We all have such different concepts of what it means to be truly following Allah's path and half the time we spend it bashing other faiths, other sects of Islam when we're not praying it seems.
Where are we going to get this unity? Who would we select as a "just ruler"
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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:08 am
Tassan, everybody interprets the Qu'ran differently, even though we all read the same words. That's the source of our issues.
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:26 am
Well... Muslim womens aren't terroists stare
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:00 am
I'm new, but if I may throw in my two cents on the issue...
Morals are subjective here in the U.S. too. That's the reason we're having problems with specific laws right now (gay marriage, abortion, etc.).
But the thing is that we agreed a long time ago on most of the things we call "rights." We find new rights as we go, of course, but we knew the most basic of rights when the country started.
Our Declaration of Independance says "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain, unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." To shorten, that means we decided that it was obvious we were all equal, that no life should be valued more or less than another.
I think that people in Islamic countries get this. You value life, of course. Everyone does. The thing is that our definition of "men" has changed. We used to think "men" referred only to white, rich men. But a couple hundred years later, we've added everyone to that category. Men, women, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Natives, rich, poor... everyone.
I think the problem with Islamic countries is that they're more old-fashioned, and so it's taking them longer to make the connections we've already made.
And I have to say, the only hope for Islam now (or any group of people, really) is this generation. Young people, all over the world, are much more accepting than their parents. It could take a few generations, but eventually, the Islamic countries may catch up with us. And I hope they do. I understand wanting to keep the traditions and old ways, but there must be a way to do that without holding others (in this case, women) back from fulfilling their potential.
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:26 am
BeXlieXve I think the problem with Islamic countries is that they're more old-fashioned, and so it's taking them longer to make the connections we've already made. if you the the example of my country (Pakistan) its far more worse then just being old fashioned!! what you exactly mean by being old fashioned? is they copping up with other countries in terms of modernism? or its just that old fashioned?? well one reason for what i am getting by your "that old fashioned" statement is that most of the things explained by Our holy prophet have been in olden days but it is said to follow the teachings even if it is the MODERN world you are living in!!
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:28 am
The Dead Terrorist Achmed
Tassan, everybody interprets the Qu'ran differently, even though we all read the same words. That's the source of our issues."its the same words but different meaning" is that what you are trying to say? that would be because one would have not paid attention to what he/she is reading
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:31 am
BeXlieXve I'm new, but if I may throw in my two cents on the issue... Morals are subjective here in the U.S. too. That's the reason we're having problems with specific laws right now (gay marriage, abortion, etc.). But the thing is that we agreed a long time ago on most of the things we call "rights." We find new rights as we go, of course, but we knew the most basic of rights when the country started. Our Declaration of Independance says "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain, unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." To shorten, that means we decided that it was obvious we were all equal, that no life should be valued more or less than another. I think that people in Islamic countries get this. You value life, of course. Everyone does. The thing is that our definition of "men" has changed. We used to think "men" referred only to white, rich men. But a couple hundred years later, we've added everyone to that category. Men, women, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Natives, rich, poor... everyone. I think the problem with Islamic countries is that they're more old-fashioned, and so it's taking them longer to make the connections we've already made. And I have to say, the only hope for Islam now (or any group of people, really) is this generation. Young people, all over the world, are much more accepting than their parents. It could take a few generations, but eventually, the Islamic countries may catch up with us. And I hope they do. I understand wanting to keep the traditions and old ways, but there must be a way to do that without holding others (in this case, women) back from fulfilling their potential. This is true, Regardless of how Islamic Countries are viewed there are countries like Lebanon who are undergoing civil problems, And regardless that I agree that Israel shouldn't be where it is due to "How" they took the land, I also agree that Islam needs to have peace within its own countries. And yeah Ahmed it is pretty bad in more than just Saudi Arabia, I believe to get a non corrupt ruler is simply to get a well known scholar that EVERYONE in that country agrees is pious and doesn't lie or do anything in private and what not. I'm thinking of having this leader not in "total" power as some countries, But to have the government have power as well, So even these innocent persons don't over rule, So it seems to me a mix of Islamic Law and American Law, Which would seem to control things.
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:41 am
Haydar the Truthful BeXlieXve I'm new, but if I may throw in my two cents on the issue... Morals are subjective here in the U.S. too. That's the reason we're having problems with specific laws right now (gay marriage, abortion, etc.). But the thing is that we agreed a long time ago on most of the things we call "rights." We find new rights as we go, of course, but we knew the most basic of rights when the country started. Our Declaration of Independance says "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain, unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." To shorten, that means we decided that it was obvious we were all equal, that no life should be valued more or less than another. I think that people in Islamic countries get this. You value life, of course. Everyone does. The thing is that our definition of "men" has changed. We used to think "men" referred only to white, rich men. But a couple hundred years later, we've added everyone to that category. Men, women, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Natives, rich, poor... everyone. I think the problem with Islamic countries is that they're more old-fashioned, and so it's taking them longer to make the connections we've already made. And I have to say, the only hope for Islam now (or any group of people, really) is this generation. Young people, all over the world, are much more accepting than their parents. It could take a few generations, but eventually, the Islamic countries may catch up with us. And I hope they do. I understand wanting to keep the traditions and old ways, but there must be a way to do that without holding others (in this case, women) back from fulfilling their potential. This is true, Regardless of how Islamic Countries are viewed there are countries like Lebanon who are undergoing civil problems, And regardless that I agree that Israel shouldn't be where it is due to "How" they took the land, I also agree that Islam needs to have peace within its own countries. And yeah Ahmed it is pretty bad in more than just Saudi Arabia, I believe to get a non corrupt ruler is simply to get a well known scholar that EVERYONE in that country agrees is pious and doesn't lie or do anything in private and what not. I'm thinking of having this leader not in "total" power as some countries, But to have the government have power as well, So even these innocent persons don't over rule, So it seems to me a mix of Islamic Law and American Law, Which would seem to control things. but in Qura'n it is mentioned the symbols of true leader!! why no body follows it??
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