Information on witchcraft-help?

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Hello everyone!

I am looking for information, preferably in book or reputable website form, on witchcraft as a non-ceremonial, non-religious practice.

This means:
Non-ceremonial - I am not interested in the casting of circles or having a stock closet full of ritual tools (note, that I view tools and actual spell components are different).

Non-religious - I am not seeking watered down Wicca. I do not believe in the Rede/Karma or the Three Fold Law. While these things are great and good in Wicca, I don't think they are innately part of witchcraft. I am not looking for spell-working systems that involves deity.

I've had Christopher Penzack's books recommended to me and am seeking more resources; I'd hate to base a practice solely off of one author.

Thanks for any and all help!

BLACK LISTED
Korealia (Because she thinks that using mental and/or physical handicap as an insult is perfectly okay)  

[Verbeley]

First I just need to ask what are you looking for directly, cause I'm not sure how you see it.

Mea  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

She's looking for a good source on witchcraft ^_^  

[too2sweet]

The following are listed in one of the Witchcraft guilds, The Crooked Way - A Traditional Witchcraft Guild. I don't know if they fit your requierments or not, but I thought I'd post them anyways.

Books

Call of the Horned Piper - Nigel Jackson ***MUST HAVE***
Masks of Misrule - Nigel Jackson
The Witching Way of the Hollow Hill - Robin Artisson ***MUST HAVE***
Helsongs - Robin Artisson
The Way of Wyrd - Brian Bates ***MUST HAVE***
The Robert Cochrane Letters - Robert Cochrane
Flying Witches: The Unguenti Sabbati in Traditional Witchcraft - Michael Howard
The Sacred Ring - Michael Howard
Sacred Mask, Sacred Dance - Evan Jones
The Roebuck in the Thicket - Evan Jones
Hedge Witch - Rae Beth *Good practical introductory book*
Hedge Witches' Way - Rae Beth *Good practical introductory book*

Also here are a couple of links (also courtesy of the above guild)...
Dark Art
Hedgewytchery  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Thanks Sweet! It's a start if nothing else.
heart  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Hrumph. Those Rae Beth books looked alright but turns out they're Wicca-based religious witchcraft >_<

Sorry, just frustrated. Seems like every book one picks up nowadays turns out to be Wicca-based religious witchcraft.  

[Esselean]

Hmm yeah all witchcraft books do seem to be wiccan based.
Maybe you could try looking for books on magic rather than witchcraft. You might have more luck?
I dunno I'm sorry i cant really help you much  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Esselean

Hmm yeah all witchcraft books do seem to be wiccan based.
Maybe you could try looking for books on magic rather than witchcraft. You might have more luck?
I dunno I'm sorry i cant really help you much

Hmm...true. It never occurred to me to search for books on magic. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the idea!  

[Verbeley]

Sanguina-chan

She's looking for a good source on witchcraft ^_^

No, I meant what she includes to witchcraft and what to religion.

And yeah most book about magic are about rituals or wicca, as it was actually by wicca promoted as something good and available for normal people.

I suggest looking for books of direct section- like stones, herbs, spells, etc instead of those with witchcraft in title. That's why I'm asking of what you see useful for you, rather than what's not.

Mea  

[too2sweet]

You might want to check this book out as well Witchcraft in Yorkshire by Patricia Crowther.

Quote:

A fascinating collection of folklore and history of witchcraft, it described customs, legends, spells, beliefs, and even contained a section on herbal cures with information on over thirty herbs.

 

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Verbeley

Sanguina-chan

She's looking for a good source on witchcraft ^_^

No, I meant what she includes to witchcraft and what to religion.

And yeah most book about magic are about rituals or wicca, as it was actually by wicca promoted as something good and available for normal people.

I suggest looking for books of direct section- like stones, herbs, spells, etc instead of those with witchcraft in title. That's why I'm asking of what you see useful for you, rather than what's not.

Mea

A general book on witchcraft; I'm not too interested in the specializations right now. I don't think I'd be any good at looking at specific areas and trying to tie them all together.

I'm trying to find information on witchcraft that does not involve working with deity and that is not tied to any religion. I'm not sure how much more plainly I can phrase it than that.

And I don't really see the prominence of book-store Wicca to excuse the horrible mangling book publishers and writers are doing to the practice of witchcraft; that would be like me cross-breeding two different types of dogs until one breed is almost extinct and then justifying it with "lawl, but i made a new breed of dog!!!"

Also, I believe that witchcraft has always been available to "normal" people; it certainly hasn't been limited to who works with it aside from religious requirements prohibiting them.  

[AiRune]

I'm the same way, what with the omission of tools and religion. My all-time favorite book is The Way of the Green Witch by Arin Murphy-Hiscock. There's a lot of "no fuss, no muss" to it.  

[Korealia]

I see people who show a great deal of disdain for 'religious based witchcraft'.

Kids, witchcraft. like prayer or things kosher, started with religion. The basis of most of what we do and how it works is not JUST a magic system, it's based in religion.

How is it really possible to have one without the other?

"Oh, well, I use THESE herbs, which is standard throughout a lot of usages in different paths...."

The herbs were tried, tested, and proved true. How their usage was viewed dealt from a religious standpoint.

Quote:

Non-ceremonial

That's pretty impossible to fill, being that Wicca is based on ceremonial magic.

Quote:

Non-religious

You're right about the Rede. American witches use them as gospel, but they're not. They're advice. A suggestion. Any traditionalist will tell you that. But as you're asking about a paradox of the nature of the thing: " I am not looking for spell-working systems that involves deity." If you look at ANY magical system, they involve diety. Even satanists, who just see deity as themselves.

Instead of focusing on just magic, how about learning more about wicca itself? Try Adian Kelly's book Inventing Witchcraft.

You might surprise yourself.

But as for what you're looking for, I understand...owever, I do not think it is possible. I have never seen a book that was based solely on magic. Believe me, I've tried looking for such a thing. The closest you might come is alchemy, but it still has religious overtones. ANY magical system has religious overtones. Voodoo has Orishnas. Ceremonial magic has archangels. The closest would be zen philosophy, but that's not nessecarily the kind of thing you're looking for, is it?

Anything that you would find that was non-religious would probably have to do with Harry Potter or card tricks. ninja  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Korealia

I see people who show a great deal of disdain for 'religious based witchcraft'.

And why not? Witchcraft isn't a religion.

Quote:

Kids, witchcraft. like prayer or things kosher, started with religion. The basis of most of what we do and how it works is not JUST a magic system, it's based in religion.

Erm, no? Witchcraft is a practice. A PRACTICE.
And don't call me "kid;" I'm hardly a child.

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How is it really possible to have one without the other?

It's very possible. I'm acquainted with a few agnostic/atheist witches. Try again.

Quote:

"Oh, well, I use THESE herbs, which is standard throughout a lot of usages in different paths...."

The herbs were tried, tested, and proved true. How their usage was viewed dealt from a religious standpoint.

What is your source on that? I hardly see where religion ties into the effects a specific herb has.

Quote:

That's pretty impossible to fill, being that Wicca is based on ceremonial magic.

Except I'm not looking for Wicca. Care to read the OP again?

Quote:

You're right about the Rede. American witches use them as gospel, but they're not. They're advice. A suggestion. Any traditionalist will tell you that. But as you're asking about a paradox of the nature of the thing: " I am not looking for spell-working systems that involves deity." If you look at ANY magical system, they involve diety. Even satanists, who just see deity as themselves.

Actually, Neo-"Wiccans" use it as gospel, not witches. I know some witches who scoff at the Rede.
And no, not every magical system involves deity. Where do you keep pulling these claims from? When an atheist practices witchcraft how is it involving deity?

Quote:

Instead of focusing on just magic, how about learning more about wicca itself? Try Adian Kelly's book Inventing Witchcraft.

I have my beliefs thank you, and I wouldn't dare trade them for Wicca. How presumptuous of you to assume that I would toss away my beliefs to go pursue Wicca. I really have no ToS-appropriate terms to tell you what I think of this statement of yours.

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You might surprise yourself.

A lot of things would surprise me right now, however none of them would be coming from myself.

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But as for what you're looking for, I understand...however, I do not think it is possible.

So you respond to do what then? Judging by your previous statements I don't think you know what I'm looking for, seeing as how you're using Wicca and witchcraft synonymously.

Quote:

I have never seen a book that was based solely on magic. Believe me, I've tried looking for such a thing. The closest you might come is alchemy, but it still has religious overtones. ANY magical system has religious overtones. Voodoo has Orishnas. Ceremonial magic has archangels. The closest would be zen philosophy, but that's not nessecarily the kind of thing you're looking for, is it?

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never seen Slovakia with my own two eyes, but I'm pretty damn certain it's there.

Quote:

Anything that you would find that was non-religious would probably have to do with Harry Potter or card tricks. ninja

Oh how quaint; a Harry Potter reference. You must be so proud of yourself for thinking that up, since no one else has ever done it before.  

[AiRune]

Someone had to have made up the religions at some point or another. So what's to stop me from making my own system of beliefs? I looked into Wicca and I didn't like what I found there. You do remember the phrase about assuming, Korealia?