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ArmasTermin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:30 pm
"A perfect storm is developing for Second Amendment opponents that could allow President-elect Barack Obama's choice for attorney general – Eric Holder – to "ban guns at will" despite the 2008 affirmation from the U.S. Supreme Court that U.S. citizens have a right to bear arms.

The situation was described with alarm by Alan Korwin, author of Gun Laws of America, in a recent commentary.

He cited Holder's known support for gun bans – the former Clinton administration official endorsed the District of Columbia's complete ban on functional guns in residents' homes before it was overturned by the Supreme Court.

And Korwin pointed to overwhelming Democratic majorities in Congress as well as Obama's known support for gun restrictions and his presence in the Oval Office.

Thirdly, Korwin, one of many Second Amendment advocates raising concerns, cited a proposal already submitted to Congress at a time when its backers could not reasonably expect it to succeed.

The submission is H.R. 1022 by New York Democrat Carolyn McCarthy and 67 co-sponsors. It was introduced in February 2007 and the next month referred to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, where it has stayed.

But that could change in the 111th Congress, sworn in today. And Korwin said the plan would allow the U.S. Attorney General – possibly Holder – to add to the list of guns banned to the public any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General."

"Note that … Holder … wrote a brief in the (District of Columbia) Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home," Korwin said.

In making this determination, the bill says, "there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event."

"In plain English," Korwin said, "This means that any firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public. That presumption can be challenged only by suing the federal government over each firearm it decides to ban, in a court it runs with a judge it pays. This virtually dismisses the principles of the Second Amendment.

"The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn't have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose – is that devious or what? And of course, 'sporting purpose' is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent," he said.

Korwin told WND a new proposal to replace H.R. 1022 is not expected to be less draconian.

"Remember – these bans were proposed when the congressional anti-rights crowd had no chance of success. Now they are ready to run wild, or according to Sarah (Brady) herself, 'I have never been so confident,'" Korwin wrote, referring to the champion of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, which requires background checks on purchasers of handguns.

Korwin said the Democrats listed in H.R. 1022 a framework for guns to be banned that includes originals, copies or duplicates of a wide-ranging list of shotguns, pistols and rifles.

One of the red flags for semiautomatic rifles would be "anything" that can serve as a grip, and as set up now, the Democrat members of the Judiciary Committee "are all sworn enemies to the Second Amendment and are unlikely to be swayed at all by any firearms related arguments," he said.

The Republicans all "need to be pressed hard to do everything they can to block the appointment."

Further, with the expectation that Obama will appoint at least one or two Supreme Court justices, further damage could be just a vote or two away, he said.

"If he can get a 5-4 or 6-3 majority who dislike gun rights, you could find that your [Second Amendment] rights aren't what they've been for 200 years," Korwin said.

John Snyder assembled a list of prominent critics of the Holder nomination.for the Firearms Coalition.

"A former Ohio secretary of state, (Ken) Blackwell notes that, 'despite Obama's new lip service to the Second Amendment, Holder signed onto a brief earlier this year (200 cool reaffirming his long-held position that the Second Amendment confers no rights whatsoever to private citizens, and that the Supreme Court should have upheld D.C.'s absolute ban on handguns, even in homes."

Snyder also cited comments from Brian Darling, director of U.S. Senate Relations at the Heritage Foundation, that Holder's position "strongly suggests that Holder is hostile to private gun ownership and will work to restrict gun rights."

Shotgun News columnist Jeff Knox wrote, "The gun rights community should make every effort to see to it that Holder's nomination is withdrawn or rejected."

According to Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, Holder has supported handgun licensing and mandatory trigger locks. He also lobbied for limits on gun shows.

"This is not the record of a man who will come to office as the nation's top law enforcement officer with the rights and concerns of gun owners in mind," Gottlieb wrote.

"America's 85 million gun owners have ample reason to be pessimistic about how their civil rights will fare under the Obama administration," Gottlieb said. "Mr. Obama will have a Congress with an anti-gun Democrat majority leadership to push his gun control agenda. Gun owners have not forgotten Mr. Obama's acknowledged opposition to concealed carry rights, nor his support for a ban on handgun ownership when he was running for the Illinois state senate."

The issue of gun rights is more important than many believe, wrote Joseph Farah, WND's founder and editor, in a recent column. He cited a study from the University of Maryland and University of Michigan that uncovered a beneficial link between gun shows and crime.

"We find a sharp decline in the number of gun homicides in the weeks immediately following a gun show," the study concluded. Furthermore, in Texas they found "gun shows reduce the number of gun homicides by 16 in the average year."

"Holder’s appointment to be AG must be approved by the Senate," wrote David Codrea in the Examiner. "While it is highly unlikely that opponents could muster the 51 votes needed to reject Holder's appointment, a single senator can place a 'hold' on the confirmation and effectively lock up the system just as Democrats did with a number of President Bush's judicial appointments and the appointment of John Bolton to be Ambassador to the U.N."

The Supreme Court decided in the D.C. vs. Heller case that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to own firearms, not just the right for states to form armed militias.

The Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home," Justice Antonin Scalia said in the majority opinion.

Justice John Paul Stevens, writing in dissent, said the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

Scalia said the ruling should not "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

Scalia was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. Joining Stevens in dissent were Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

The amendment, ratified in 1791, says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.""





Uh, yep.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:49 pm
Indeed, we are FUBAR

Even worse, we only have 9 days and it takes 10 days for a background check in CA rolleyes crying
Me, Crash, Reaper and Requiem6661 are pretty much ******** for 4-8 years. Well, not so much Crash as he is LEO

Would anyone like to transfer ownership of a semi-automatic rifle to me in 2 years? I'll pay for it...  

Buki_Actual

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Krilliad

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:43 pm
SBBuckner
Indeed, we are FUBAR

Even worse, we only have 9 days and it takes 10 days for a background check in CA rolleyes crying
Me, Crash, Reaper and Requiem6661 are pretty much ******** for 4-8 years. Well, not so much Crash as he is LEO

Would anyone like to transfer ownership of a semi-automatic rifle to me in 2 years? I'll pay for it...
Yah, I was planning on buying a few things when I am 18, ( 2 years) But I'm ******** now.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:25 pm
Battlefield Reaper
SBBuckner
Indeed, we are FUBAR

Even worse, we only have 9 days and it takes 10 days for a background check in CA rolleyes crying
Me, Crash, Reaper and Requiem6661 are pretty much ******** for 4-8 years. Well, not so much Crash as he is LEO

Would anyone like to transfer ownership of a semi-automatic rifle to me in 2 years? I'll pay for it...
Yah, I was planning on buying a few things when I am 18, ( 2 years) But I'm ******** now.


I know, you're Southern Commiefornia too. We need to get together and airsoft some time mrgreen  

Buki_Actual

9,050 Points
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Crash Maniac

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:19 pm
*looks up* huh... did some one say my name?


I've been away for a little while. Training sucks. dropped 45 pounds in an effort to go reserve. Almost there...

Yeah, we're screwed... say goodbye to any resemblance of legal, law abiding gun ownership. in a few months, it wont exist. And we'll be no more than redneck wacko criminal's no better than the thugs we strive to defend ourselves (and all those other sheeple) from.  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:24 am
SBBuckner
Even worse, we only have 9 days and it takes 10 days for a background check in CA rolleyes crying
This is the GOVERNMENT. They can't pass a law in one day. They're lucky to take a s**t in one day.  

Fresnel
Crew

Citizen


OberFeldwebel

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:07 am
Baaa... Jhaaa?
Mih jo gno qwe?

... gonk  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:29 am
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod  

Fresnel
Crew

Citizen


Crash Maniac

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:19 pm
Fresnel
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod


i got one...


Open Borders, No guns, and universal health care.  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:24 pm
Crash Maniac
Fresnel
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod


i got one...


Open Borders, No guns, and universal health care.


= we're completely ********.  

OberFeldwebel


Crash Maniac

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:29 pm
OberFeldwebel
Crash Maniac
Fresnel
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod


i got one...


Open Borders, No guns, and universal health care.


= we're completely ******** class="clear">


I'm just gonna join the army, the DEM government wont send me anywhere, to fight anyone...

but i'll get training (more than i already have) and access to weapons....  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:33 pm
Crash Maniac
OberFeldwebel
Crash Maniac
Fresnel
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod


i got one...


Open Borders, No guns, and universal health care.


= we're completely ******** class="clear">


I'm just gonna join the army, the DEM government wont send me anywhere, to fight anyone...

but i'll get training (more than i already have) and access to weapons....


Hey, if they have it how they want it, you wont be able to keep any at your home.  

OberFeldwebel


Requiem ex Inferni

Eloquent Streaker

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:04 pm
See, I don't care if they ban guns or not. Once I'm 18, I'm getting a shotgun. End of discussion. If I have to break the law to get it, then I will. The only difference is that I'll get it sawed-off because it'll already be illegal anyways.

My friend's grandpa has already said that he will keep a firearm in the house even if they completely ban guns.

Besides, the 2nd Amendment is in the Bill of Rights- it's supposed to be a GUARANTEED RIGHT. If they can take that away, then they can also take away freedom of speech, the right to a speedy and fair trial and the right to no search without a warrant. It's just another step along the way of becoming the U.S.S.A.  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:33 pm
Requiem6661
See, I don't care if they ban guns or not. Once I'm 18, I'm getting a shotgun. End of discussion. If I have to break the law to get it, then I will. The only difference is that I'll get it sawed-off because it'll already be illegal anyways.

My friend's grandpa has already said that he will keep a firearm in the house even if they completely ban guns.

Besides, the 2nd Amendment is in the Bill of Rights- it's supposed to be a GUARANTEED RIGHT. If they can take that away, then they can also take away freedom of speech, the right to a speedy and fair trial and the right to no search without a warrant. It's just another step along the way of becoming the U.S.S.A.


Sawed off = over-rated and pistol grip = OUCH!

I shot some 12gauge dove loads in a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and could only handle 2 shots. My dads friend who owns the gun shot about 5 rounds and could barely fire off 2 rounds of 9mm.

You think they haven't?

Freedom of Speech: Patriot Act
No Unlawful Search or Seizure: Patriot Act
Right to a Fair and Speedy Trail: Getmo  

Freak_090
Captain


Buki_Actual

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:07 pm
Crash Maniac
Fresnel
I think I just thought of something worse than a total gun ban that could happen with a Democratic government.

OPEN BORDERS

Ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod


i got one...


Open Borders, No guns, and universal health care.


We will probably have
Camp in the desert and get come target practice  
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