So what guns does one need? EDITS

[ArmasTermin]

I've got it in my head that I want to buy either a rifle or a shotgun at the next gun show, provided that certain people haven't thundered with the ban-hammer on such events by that time. So what does one recommend? The shotgun would probably end up being a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. I don't know much about shotguns. For a rifle I'm thinking I would want to hit long range but not pay out the as for ammunition. I was thinking Mosin Nagant, but I prefer guns with ammo that can be bought at Wal Mart. I guess that's not totally necessary. Speaking of Mosins, if I were looking at one, what would I look for to see that it's in good shape? I know a clean bore and a slick action are selling points on guns in general, but would I be silly looking for a slick action on a Mosin? Educate me.

EDIT: I should have pointed out the uses for these. I do not hunt. Though I would want either the shotgun or rifle to serve in that role if so needed in a survival situation, that wouldn't be the main purpose or even a sub-purpose. The shotgun's purpose would be a having fun shooting stuff gun, and a home defense gun, and would have to stand up to zombies or other maladies should they come about. The rifle would be for having fun shooting stuff, and for whatever kind of maladies come about as well.

I really want a semi-auto rifle with semi-cheap ammo that can shoot accurately at fair distances that doesn't cost more than $400-500. Does that exist?  

[Freak_090]

Mosins: I would Try to get one made after WWII they seem to be a much better quality. Check out this site: http://7.62x54r.net/

Personally i am trying to save up for a Semi-auto rifle because that's the first thing they would try to strike down.  

[Inquisitor Brock]

Remington 870  

[Man of the Demoneye]

The 870 is a good gun. If you are planning to hunt with it, I would suggest a 3" or 3 1/2" chamber gun just because it is hard to find BB/BBB/T shot in 2 3/4" at times. Plus a lot of turkey loads are going 3" now.  

[Orkronos]

SKS-D
Cheap, reliable and takes AK mags, pretty good hunting rifle, not the best by a longshot but its allso a good defence weapon, if your in for hunting get a moisin. As for a shotgun id say mossburg, comparitivly it more bang for your buck.  

[Orkronos]

*reads edit* ah ok, well im nit sure what the cost of 7.62 ammo is at the moment, probably varies by state.  

[Freak_090]

CETMEs can be had for that price range, but it would require a fair amount of shopping.

If you don't mind going a bit over your range, DPMS has their Panther A3 Lite 16 for only $725.  

[OberFeldwebel]

Agreed, I'm sure that's what Obama would want gone first... c**k gobbler.

Well, here's a semi-auto rifle that can reach out and touch something and uses cheap ammo.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/romanian-psl-54c-sniper-rifle-7-62x54r-with-4x-scope-/products_id/2392

Although it would cost you 750 clams and some amount in transfer fees which is over what you're expecting to pay.
When I got the rifle the guy doing the transfer questioned if it would be an 'Assault Rifle' which would require a license but since the stock could be argued as a thumbhole stock, which it is, he ruled it as a long gun.
Certainly the Yugo M76 would be an 'assault rifle'.

It'd be something to ponder, and ask the guy doing the transfer before hand.
If he doesn't know bring a picture for him to decide.


When I was looking for CETMEs I was told that they're hit and miss and may require reworking or new parts to function well. Which I believe means sending it back to Century Arms for retooling or whatnot unless you get a gunsmith that can do it.


As to ask the question that was asked in your topic title.

All.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

For shotguns, I've been thinking of either a double-barreled, 870, Mossberg 500 or Ithaca 37. Except for the double-barrel and Ithaca I'd try to get them left-handed.

As for rifles, something in .30-06 for hunting deer, probably a Savage Arms, though I really want a Mauser. I also want my grandpa's Windchester and an SL8.  

[ArmasTermin]

Ober, I'm liking that PSL quite a bit, and Freak's Light 16 suggestion also looks nice. But man, expensive... I guess I'll have to either up my budget or lower my expectations. and I don't like the idea of lowering my expectations. Is the PSL an entirely different rifle from some knock-off civi-AK with a scope in a bigger caliber? I mean are the internals built for preceision shooting?

EDIT: I thought a Mosin would cost me $150 or more, but AIM surplus has two, one for $70 and one for $80. Freak, can you get any sentiment of quality based on looking at them from here? Is that a good deal? At that price I could get one and something else not to much later:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Hex_Receiver_Model_91_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Package.html  

[Freak_090]

I would stick to AIM everyplace I have seen MNs, they have been upwards of $100. I would suggest getting or looking for Hex's or Low-Walled receivers. Hexs were made between world wars and the Low-walls were made up until 1941.

Hex: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/1601.jpg
Low-Wall: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/1602.jpg
High-Wall: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/1602.jpg

Yes, PSLs work on the same action as the AK.  

[Fresnel]

ArmasTermin

Ober, I'm liking that PSL quite a bit, and Freak's Light 16 suggestion also looks nice. But man, expensive... I guess I'll have to either up my budget or lower my expectations. and I don't like the idea of lowering my expectations. Is the PSL an entirely different rifle from some knock-off civi-AK with a scope in a bigger caliber? I mean are the internals built for preceision shooting?

EDIT: I thought a Mosin would cost me $150 or more, but AIM surplus has two, one for $70 and one for $80. Freak, can you get any sentiment of quality based on looking at them from here? Is that a good deal? At that price I could get one and something else not to much later:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Hex_Receiver_Model_91_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Package.html

JG Sales has Mosins for the same price. I think their hexes are $70, though. Also, they have Mosin sniper models with the matching scope and bent bolt. They want $300 for those.

For a shotgun, I'd recommend the 870. Now I'll be honest, I've never shot a Mossberg 500, but my brother's 870 was a slick piece of work (though it wasn't stock by a long shot). A shotgun is a very nice, multi-purpose weapon, and 12 gauge is... well, it can get expensive. I'm seeing a dollar a round most times, but half that for target loads. Maybe you should look at a Saiga? Saiga 12s are around $600, but I found a .410 Saiga for $335 new. .410's more expensive that 12 though.  

[OberFeldwebel]

ArmasTermin

Ober, I'm liking that PSL quite a bit, and Freak's Light 16 suggestion also looks nice. But man, expensive... I guess I'll have to either up my budget or lower my expectations. and I don't like the idea of lowering my expectations. Is the PSL an entirely different rifle from some knock-off civi-AK with a scope in a bigger caliber? I mean are the internals built for preceision shooting?

EDIT: I thought a Mosin would cost me $150 or more, but AIM surplus has two, one for $70 and one for $80. Freak, can you get any sentiment of quality based on looking at them from here? Is that a good deal? At that price I could get one and something else not to much later:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Hex_Receiver_Model_91_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Package.html

Well, it's a Romanian copy of the Dragunov. They did some alterations on it. Well, more of an AK trying to be a Dragunov I guess.
24" chrome lined barrel, welded on Muzzle break, some furniture alterations and a reinforced receiver.

... I was just looking for some information and...

"I recommend to all users of such a rifle to stop using commercial Sellier& Bellot 7.62x54r and any other heavy ball such as the Bulgarian, Russian or German 54r. The rifle is not designed to EFFECTIVELY handle such rounds and almost everyone having problems that I have seen and fixed in the shop were due to shooting this stuff. They just beat the living hell out of those bolts even with the pin relief cut-out in the rear trunion. The gun is designed to use a STANDARD military 54r with a 147-158 grn bullet. This is a safe range of the 54r standard round to go by when using this rifle. I own a PSL and have never had one problem with it. It is a joy to shoot, quite accurate and the long stroke gas system is surprisingly smooth. I have fixed a wide array of problems for many people, but I must admit that more often than not they were brought on by the operator. Trust me, I have seen some screwy things fall out of the inside of the bolt assembly which I could write pages on, some really hysterical.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to deter anyone from enjoying their PSL. Just follow this advice, and you should be fine:

1. Use military 7.62x54r ball

2. Keep the inside of the bolt well lubricated (Breakfree® is good)

3. Keep your internal trigger components lubricated and free of residue."

That's something to keep in mind.

Since most Hex receiver Mosins were made pre-WWII, they're of better machining and quality because of it.
Although if both work as they should, their functionality should all be the same.