Obama and his silly promises.

[Kuchen Fairy]

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

Quote:

Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

Some readers might think it unfair to blame Obama. After all, the president inherited the "don't ask, don't tell" law when he took office. As Commander-in-Chief, he has to follow the law. If the law says that the military must fire any service member who acknowledges being gay, that is not Obama's fault.

Or is it?

A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality.

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Obama has been praised for delaying efforts to get rid of "don't ask, don't tell," and some major gay rights groups are actively lobbying to delay consideration of the issue. They seem to believe that Obama should focus on other gay-rights issues first, and that he shouldn't spend his precious political capital trying to ram a repeal bill through Congress.

This misses the point. Obama could sign an executive order today. With roughly three-quarters of the public, including a majority of republicans, in favor of open gay service, a meaningful public backlash is unlikely. A slight majority of service members prefer that the policy be left in place, but polls also show that only a tiny minority of them care strongly about the issue, and that the vast majority of service members are comfortable interacting with gays.

Obama may believe he has nothing to lose by waiting. But what about Dan Choi's career? Is this really the right time to fire military officers who are fluent in Arabic?

Sauce.


Obama ******** up big time, imo. I keep hearing the same excuse from his supporters - he's better than Bush and/or better than McCain would be. First off, you can't know how better or worse than McCain he is because McCain ain't the prez and never will be. Second, you can't keep justifying Obama like this on the notion that he's "better" than someone else. It doesn't matter how much better he is than other people - if he's being a little s**t, that's all that matters. Another thing I keep hearing is that "well at least he promised to do something about X." WHO CARES? If you ask me, that's even worse than just straight up being like "hell no, I'm not doing that." If he promises something and then fails to deliver, how is that any better than a politician that doesn't claim that (s)he'll try? It's nice to know that you're glad that he's not a Republican because Republicans wouldn't have tried, but it doesn't look like Obama's trying much either. Seems to me like he's just lying to please people. Chalk another one up for the O-man. Discuss.

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.  

[Fresnel]

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?  

[Archaic Thought]

Silver Screen

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?

That's true, I find the massess hilarious as they cling to Obamessiah's ever word.

Someone set us up the bomb!  

[Fresnel]

mistercombine

Silver Screen

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?

That's true, I find the massess hilarious as they cling to Obamessiah's ever word.

Someone set us up the bomb!

That's what we get for being a nation of idiots and "to prove I don't hate blacks I'll discriminate against whites instead" dumbshits. Really annoys me how so many people didn't even look past "hope", "change", and "black man" when they voted for him. Hell, have you guys been to the Wal-Mart fabrics section recently? My local Wally World has TWO REAMS of Obama felt. It's ******** sickening.

We get signal!  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

mistercombine

Silver Screen

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?

That's true, I find the massess hilarious as they cling to Obamessiah's ever word.

Someone set us up the bomb!

That's what we get for being a nation of idiots and "to prove I don't hate blacks I'll discriminate against whites instead" dumbshits. Really annoys me how so many people didn't even look past "hope", "change", and "black man" when they voted for him. Hell, have you guys been to the Wal-Mart fabrics section recently? My local Wally World has TWO REAMS of Obama felt. It's ******** sickening.

We get signal!

Obligatory Howard Stern broadcast. This never gets old. Every time I listen to it I silently rage.

For great justice.  

[Archaic Thought]

Fresnel

mistercombine

Silver Screen

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?

That's true, I find the massess hilarious as they cling to Obamessiah's ever word.

Someone set us up the bomb!

That's what we get for being a nation of idiots and "to prove I don't hate blacks I'll discriminate against whites instead" dumbshits. Really annoys me how so many people didn't even look past "hope", "change", and "black man" when they voted for him. Hell, have you guys been to the Wal-Mart fabrics section recently? My local Wally World has TWO REAMS of Obama felt. It's ******** sickening.

We get signal!

Hype, that's what it is. That, andyour average Dumbsh- I mean, Average American, rarely does any digging past the surface level. If they'd open their eyes, they'd see one of the most glaring problems, several Trillion dollars in debt. Better get used to calling your neighbor Comrade, know where that money came from...?  

[Fresnel]

mistercombine

Fresnel

mistercombine

Silver Screen

Fresnel

Yeah, he's pretty much screwed the pooch. I'm just waiting for the realization to hit that he's really not hot s**t, and he's the same ******** president we've had for the last two hundred years.

Silver Screen

Unrelated news: My cat just knocked my ******** drink all over the couch. CATS.

HOW ARE ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.

Obama's celebrity status has deluded people into thinking he's like every other celebrity - "perfect." That delusion overrides any common sense those people have to differentiate a politician from a messiah.

What you say?

That's true, I find the massess hilarious as they cling to Obamessiah's ever word.

Someone set us up the bomb!

That's what we get for being a nation of idiots and "to prove I don't hate blacks I'll discriminate against whites instead" dumbshits. Really annoys me how so many people didn't even look past "hope", "change", and "black man" when they voted for him. Hell, have you guys been to the Wal-Mart fabrics section recently? My local Wally World has TWO REAMS of Obama felt. It's ******** sickening.

We get signal!

Hype, that's what it is. That, andyour average Dumbsh- I mean, Average American, rarely does any digging past the surface level. If they'd open their eyes, they'd see one of the most glaring problems, several Trillion dollars in debt. Better get used to calling your neighbor Comrade, know where that money came from...?

In communist China, debt owns you.  

[black_wing_angel]

Silver Screen

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

Quote:

Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

Some readers might think it unfair to blame Obama. After all, the president inherited the "don't ask, don't tell" law when he took office. As Commander-in-Chief, he has to follow the law. If the law says that the military must fire any service member who acknowledges being gay, that is not Obama's fault.

Or is it?

A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality.

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.

Quote:

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Silver Screen

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

Quote:

Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

Some readers might think it unfair to blame Obama. After all, the president inherited the "don't ask, don't tell" law when he took office. As Commander-in-Chief, he has to follow the law. If the law says that the military must fire any service member who acknowledges being gay, that is not Obama's fault.

Or is it?

A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality.

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.

Quote:

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Silver Screen

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

Quote:

Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

Some readers might think it unfair to blame Obama. After all, the president inherited the "don't ask, don't tell" law when he took office. As Commander-in-Chief, he has to follow the law. If the law says that the military must fire any service member who acknowledges being gay, that is not Obama's fault.

Or is it?

A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality.

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.

Quote:

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.

But the question remains: Why does that person need to know your sexuality? It serves no benefit in combat. If anything, it's good for a short conversation, or the set-up to sexual activity, the latter of which has no place in military service.

I can understand not wanting to have to hide it, but that's the choice you make. You have to decide if it's worth hiding your sexuality, for the sake of your country, or not.

Just like how I would have to choose whether it's worth cutting my hair off, for the same reason.

Incidentally, I have long ago decided that no, it's not.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Silver Screen

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

Quote:

Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

Some readers might think it unfair to blame Obama. After all, the president inherited the "don't ask, don't tell" law when he took office. As Commander-in-Chief, he has to follow the law. If the law says that the military must fire any service member who acknowledges being gay, that is not Obama's fault.

Or is it?

A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The "don't ask, don't tell" law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members' sexuality.

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.

Quote:

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.

But the question remains: Why does that person need to know your sexuality? It serves no benefit in combat. If anything, it's good for a short conversation, or the set-up to sexual activity, the latter of which has no place in military service.

I can understand not wanting to have to hide it, but that's the choice you make. You have to decide if it's worth hiding your sexuality, for the sake of your country, or not.

Just like how I would have to choose whether it's worth cutting my hair off, for the same reason.

Incidentally, I have long ago decided that no, it's not.

And if you figure out that you're in over your head and it's much harder to keep it a secret than you thought it would be, you can't just QUIT. The only way out takes away your right to vote, your right to own guns, and you'll probably have a very hard time getting hired again anywhere else.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Silver Screen

So it's pretty common knowledge that Obama has promised to, at the very least, pursue the "liberation" of gays (poor choice or wording on my part; ******** it). So here's the run-down; dude comes out on tv, dude gets fired for being gay. This wouldn't be anything new except the circumstances make it a little bit more critical.

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

An executive order would not get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.

I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.

Quote:

I spent a day with Dan Choi last month, and he is not someone we want to fire from the military. He loves the armed forces. He served bravely under tough combat conditions in Iraq. His Arabic is excellent, and he used his language skills to diffuse many tough situations and to save lives, both Iraqi and American. All of his unit mates know he is gay, and they have been very supportive of him. But he doesn't want to live a lie.

Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.

But the question remains: Why does that person need to know your sexuality? It serves no benefit in combat. If anything, it's good for a short conversation, or the set-up to sexual activity, the latter of which has no place in military service.

I can understand not wanting to have to hide it, but that's the choice you make. You have to decide if it's worth hiding your sexuality, for the sake of your country, or not.

Just like how I would have to choose whether it's worth cutting my hair off, for the same reason.

Incidentally, I have long ago decided that no, it's not.

And if you figure out that you're in over your head and it's much harder to keep it a secret than you thought it would be, you can't just QUIT. The only way out takes away your right to vote, your right to own guns, and you'll probably have a very hard time getting hired again anywhere else.

Well, if ANYTHING needs to be changed, it's that fact.

I understand why they impliment it. So people won't be able to cop out at the first sign of danger. But at the same time, there are legitimate cases like this, where one should not be penalized for being "unable to continue".  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.



I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.



Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.

But the question remains: Why does that person need to know your sexuality? It serves no benefit in combat. If anything, it's good for a short conversation, or the set-up to sexual activity, the latter of which has no place in military service.

I can understand not wanting to have to hide it, but that's the choice you make. You have to decide if it's worth hiding your sexuality, for the sake of your country, or not.

Just like how I would have to choose whether it's worth cutting my hair off, for the same reason.

Incidentally, I have long ago decided that no, it's not.

And if you figure out that you're in over your head and it's much harder to keep it a secret than you thought it would be, you can't just QUIT. The only way out takes away your right to vote, your right to own guns, and you'll probably have a very hard time getting hired again anywhere else.

Well, if ANYTHING needs to be changed, it's that fact.

I understand why they impliment it. So people won't be able to cop out at the first sign of danger. But at the same time, there are legitimate cases like this, where one should not be penalized for being "unable to continue".

Yeah, instead you just pull a Max Klinger.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

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I kinda thought that was the WHOLE POINT to the "DON'T ASK, don't tell" thing. They won't ask, and you won't tell.

So, if it was found that he VOLUNTEERED the information, then he's just ********, out-right. However, if someone ASKED him his sexuality, he should have responded with something like "I'm sorry, but I'm not in liberty to discuss that matter", and whoever asked him, should face penalties of some sort.

Actually, it's pretty cut and dry.



I see no reason to get rid of "don't ask don't tell".

The whole point is to put everyone on equal ground. You just act like common soldiers are supposed to act. Your sexuality has no place in the military, at all. No one needs to know that you are gay. And if people DID know you're gay, it would probably cause unnecessary tension in the barracks.

You keep quiet about being gay, and they stay quiet about being straight, and there's no problem.



Well, I don't want to live in middle class income, and I believe I deserve better. But the words "Tough s**t" come to mind.

He wasn't FORCED into the military, he volunteered. They have strict standards that he is expected to uphold. He failed, he ******** himself.

The problem is they're not ALLOWED to tell anyone, even their friends. You know how the military gets, when you're in the s**t, the guy laying in the hole next to you is closer than your own brother. And you can't tell him you're gay, whether he cares or not, because if word gets out, then you're a felon.

Yeah... a dishonorable discharge is a felony.

But the question remains: Why does that person need to know your sexuality? It serves no benefit in combat. If anything, it's good for a short conversation, or the set-up to sexual activity, the latter of which has no place in military service.

I can understand not wanting to have to hide it, but that's the choice you make. You have to decide if it's worth hiding your sexuality, for the sake of your country, or not.

Just like how I would have to choose whether it's worth cutting my hair off, for the same reason.

Incidentally, I have long ago decided that no, it's not.

And if you figure out that you're in over your head and it's much harder to keep it a secret than you thought it would be, you can't just QUIT. The only way out takes away your right to vote, your right to own guns, and you'll probably have a very hard time getting hired again anywhere else.

Well, if ANYTHING needs to be changed, it's that fact.

I understand why they impliment it. So people won't be able to cop out at the first sign of danger. But at the same time, there are legitimate cases like this, where one should not be penalized for being "unable to continue".

Yeah, instead you just pull a Max Klinger.

Elaborate?