The death of Dr. Tiller.

[Kuchen Fairy]

Brief synopsis for those who live under a rock - George "Tiller the Baby Killer" Tiller, a late term abortionist from Kansas, was shot and killed recently at his church. According to the media, the nation is mourning this loss like Jesus had returned to the Earth and been crucified all over again.

If it wasn't already obvious by now, I am vehemently against abortion for less conventional reasons than the typical anti-abortionist. In spite of this, Dr. Tiller's death came not as a shock but certainly as a disappointment. I am not all that sad that he is dead - though this is partly to blame for my strange views on death - but I am sympathetic to his family.

Contrary to popular belief, the pro-life community shares these regrets. In fact, most of the community is more regretful than I am, and for different, more empathetic reasons. Death is never the appropriate means to achieve an end, though many philosophers might disagree with me on that (I'm looking at you, Mill). However, what concerns me - and others like me - the most about Tiller the Baby Killer's death is that it might be twisted into classic martyrdom despite the wishes of both his family and the common sense of the intelligent members of both sides to the abortion issue. Regardless of the stances of the perpetrator - be him religious, against abortion, whatever - he and his actions do not and never will reflect the views of the religious or pro-life community. The religious are not "killers," nor the pro-life community "hypocrites," for the horrific and condemnable actions of one person. This, of course, is beyond the mental capacity of many a media member, who will spread such a disease to the public like Jeffree Star would spread the clap - quickly and without easy repair. Another related concern is that this will be viewed as a desirable outcome in the eyes of the pro-life community, though that is actually quite the opposite from every respectable pro-life organisation, as they all condemn this kind of rebellion.

A significant but less evident uproar over this is coming from the antitheism community, which insists that the perp must be religious since the antitheists have already deduced with their astounding logic that he also must have been anti-abortion (which is a good guess but not factual at this time), and every religious person is anti-abortion and vice versa. They believe this is fuel to the fire they are building below the cauldron of religion's desired death. I find this strange and ironic, almost laughable, for Dr. Tiller was murdered in his church, yet what matters more than his own faith is the faith of whoever killed him. But antitheists hardly deserve screentime so I'm going to slide that across the table and move on.

It is my opinion that Dr. Tiller is not a martyr. He was not murdered for what he believed in, he was (likely) murdered for what he practiced - abortions, most of them late term. Late term abortion is a sweeping term but is widely accepted as one used to describe abortions that take place past the 20-week gestation mark. Foetuses have been known to survive as premature as 21 weeks, so it goes without saying that many people, even pro-choicers, are very much against such a procedure. Thus, the stance the accused killer took - an eye for an eye, per se - was technically utilised correctly (not to be confused with being correct, which is a matter of opinion) even if you don't believe a foetus is a human being, because regardless of what you believe, a being made of human tissue that is independent from a parasitic relationship with its maternal and paternal figures is a human, and a foetus aborted during a viable stage of its existence falls under such a term. Whether you think it is right or not is another story, but whatever.
Martyrdom implies death through defense or promotion of a relative praiseworthy cause. While abortion martyrdom is one thing, late-term abortion "martyrdom" is on a separate tier entirely. For one, depending on the nature of each pregnancy, it can't really be called martyrdom on a societal scale. Second, late term abortions go beyond a matter of opinion as to when life begins and crosses into the field of scientifically backed, proven life. It's one thing to allow late term abortions for those who medically need it, but it is another to allow them without question of basis. Removing tissue that is yet to be proven to be alive or not alive is different than killing an unborn child; thus, I can't see how Dr. Tiller is a martyr in any sense of the word.

I forgot where I was going with that, so back to my point - that this will likely inevitably hurt the pro-life community despite the fact that it shouldn't, as Dr. Tiller is not particularly a martyr, nor is his death reflective of the goals of the pro-life community itself. Dr. Tiller's death was one brought upon by sheer hypocrisy, something the pro-life community does not condone. They cannot be blamed for the death of this abortionist. And again, while I am sad to hear of Dr. Tiller's death, I am more saddened by the imminent strike against the reputation of a peaceful and understanding movement. My sick and unexplained ounce of relief that this news brought is rendered obsolete by the stronger sense of dread I feel for what is to come. The respectable pro-life community has never supported violence, and as I said this is more of a hindrance to us than anything, as we are obviously against death and such harsh objective means. That knowledge means very little to those who seek a medium through which they can place blame. Using tragedy for political gain is not a new concept, but it's certainly not a respectable one, but it's been a long time since I've seen anything politically respectable emerge from such events.

Your thoughts, if you will.  

[Kuchen Fairy]

This is a comment about nothing because I'm retarded and didn't properly edit my post. Disregard, cocks, etc.  

[black_wing_angel]

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!  

[black_wing_angel]

Meet Your Mistress

The secret source of humor is not joy but sorrow;

Who can commit murder on a church?

Somebody who wants to be on all press headlines. That´s it. Even criminals crave for their fifteen minutes of fame.

there is no humor in Heaven. Mark Twain

True...  

[Kuchen Fairy]

I think this was less about fame and more about personal relief. I think this gentleman feels he committed a morally good deed; like banishing a demon or whatever, though I can imagine that's not how he literally felt about it. I think he wanted Tiller to confess himself in front of God sooner rather than later.  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".  

[magmayoshi]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.  

[Fresnel]

magmayoshi

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?  

[Fresnel]

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?

There's nothing to say Tiller didn't drop dead of a massive brain aneurysm the instant before the bullet hit him, either. If you want to bring in whacko out-of-left-field theories, there's nothing to say that every baby Tiller aborted wasn't a new Hitler. Should we give him the Congressional Medal of Honor then?  

[Kuchen Fairy]

Fresnel

magmayoshi

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

But both of them can accurately claim that.

Tiller could have guessed it, but he had absolutely no evidence that one of the children he aborted would have been a murderer. He could have played the numbers game, but it's all guesses. Tiller's murderer had a pretty solid case that if Tiller had lived, he would have kept aborting children. It's his JOB, after all.

To be fair, Tiller was probably thinking more in terms of saving women's lives, not lives of future murder victims, lmao. There is a popular misconception that because most doctors will not perform late-term abortions, they wouldn't perform them at all, even if the mother was dying due to the pregnancy. This is very far from the truth - most doctors actually rush those kinds of decisions. So I think a lot of people view Tiller as some kind of saviour when in reality he is doing what most doctors would do to save a life - and then some, considering most of his abortions were elective and had no particular medical basis. That's what makes him different from other abortionists. He didn't care about the circumstances. He'd do it anyway, right up to the day of expectance.

I am generally not one to question others' faiths, but I really have to wonder where he was religiously coming from with this mindset. I don't see how he, as a man of God, could look at his work and think it was right. Saving a woman's life at the cost of an unborn child's is one thing, but performing partial-birth and otherwise late-term abortions without circumstance is just beyond my level of ethics.  

[black_wing_angel]

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

Fresnel

black_wing_angel

While I'm CERTAINLY no fan of the practice of abortion, I can't agree with the murder of an abortion doctor. Essentially, the person who shot him has just become their own worst enemy, whether they realize it or not, as they've become absolutely no better than he was. They themself are now a "murderer" too, but THEY are LEGALLY a murderer, not just morally, like Tiller was. So in that sense, they're WORSE than Tiller.

Also, who commits murder in a CHURCH? Seriously, that's just the lowest of the low!

However, the murderer has the claim of "I saved future lives".

Unless that person can see into the future, I'm ruling bullshit.

There's nothing to prove that the doctor, upon leaving the church, wouldn't have had a great "epiphany" and decide to quit. There's nothing to say he WOULD have, but nothing to say he WOULDN'T have, either. Remember, the point of going to church is to become closer to God. And they teach us that, to be closer to God, we are to do what we can to not sin. So, logically, if he wanted to go to church, and be closer to God, he would likely have soon quit the abortion scene. We'll never know, now...

The only thing the murderer can accurately claim, is that they are now absolutely no better than he was.

I hope the p***k gets the death penalty. Wouldn't that be wonderful irony?

There's nothing to say Tiller didn't drop dead of a massive brain aneurysm the instant before the bullet hit him, either. If you want to bring in whacko out-of-left-field theories, there's nothing to say that every baby Tiller aborted wasn't a new Hitler. Should we give him the Congressional Medal of Honor then?

My point is that one can not claim that they saved future lives by killing someone, because we'll never know that to be true. I'm not saying treat the man like a hero, I'm saying DON'T treat his murderer like one.  

[Zambimaru]

I think its sad anytime a religious extremist kills an innocent person. Guess Church isn't such a safe place after all.