Hard/Soft Polytheism

[doistu]

This post is a follow on from the post "Do Gods/Goddesses of different pantheons talk to each other?"

I've never really understood either to be fair but from what I gather soft polytheists believe all Gods are part of One Whole. Whereas hard polytheists believe each God is an induvidual.

I can see the pros and cons with both and it seems to me that I would be a hard polytheist. It just makes sense that They should all be induviduals because They're all so different.

So we could dicuss who is a hard/soft polytheist. Why are you one? And why it matters? Sorry that this post is short but I want to learn a bit more.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Hard polytheist. Always have been wink I've never really been able to understand the concept of all these different gods being the same entity. I mean, I get the concept.... what I don't get is why people believe all gods are one God, and then go and worship Cernunnos or something. If all gods are one God, why are you only worshipping one part of that god? Don't get it.

Back before I found Pagans on Gaia, I was hanging out on sites like Covenspace. And practically every person I came across was a soft polytheist. Now this in itself wasn't really the issue.... the issue was that they implied, suggested, and in some cases literally stated that soft polytheism was a deeper, more mature and more spiritually evolved understanding of deity. And that really pissed me off. It also really confused me, because some of these people were really idiots and I couldn't work out why I was so less spiritually evolved than they were if they could see so clearly that all gods were one God, and I couldn't.

Anyway. I felt a bit... alone. So it was great to come here and realise that hard polytheism wasn't quite as rare and inferior as I had been led to believe xd  

[doistu]

Oh Dear! I never thought people would use it like that. How immature. I can see exactly where you're coming from in terms of "how can you worship a teensy bit of the ONE GOD"

It just makes more sense to me  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

That's not really what I meant.... Okay, you know how some people will think "today is spring equinox, thus I will worship the Ostara form of the goddess"? I don't get that. Why not just worship the goddess? Why ask Aphrodite if you need love help if you don't actually believe in Aphrodite? Why super-impose these images onto these two deities.... and why change them depending on situation? It's all the same god.

That's what I don't get. xp  

[Starlock]

Are you asking why a soft polytheist might use specific deity forms, in essence, Sanguina? I think the answer probably varies for each individual, but in general I suspect it's because that particular imagery resonates with them. It's the same sort of thing when you get people working with pop culture icons in their spiritual or magical practice. It works for them, so they use it, eh?

I think there might be some other reasons too. I don't think soft-polytheists are really "superimposing" specific forms onto the one divine form; they're recognizing them as facets. When we work with people, we only work with particular facets of their identity at once. I like to cook, for example. If we're making a meal together, you're not really involved with me as an entire person, but mostly my "cook aspect." It wouldn't make sense to start asking me about my hobby painting miniatures when cooking; therein lines the distinction between regarding a specific facet of the whole versus the whole. Does that make more sense?

I'm not sure that's how a soft polytheist would go about describing it though. I personally identify with neither. To me, asking if the divine is many or one is like asking if there exists a forest or a bunch of trees. To me, everything is simply an interconnected network of relationships. It's both unified and distinctive. Ultimately I think the nature of the divine eludes us and whatever we project onto it is only a part of the truth.  

[o sunflower king]

Starlock pretty much covers it for me. 3nodding  

[doistu]

I have also taken this question to another site and it appears to have caused a problem.

Hard/soft appear to e derogatory to some people and apparently soft poytheism is actually called pantheism.

I dunno if this is a touchy subject which is why it seems to have upset people or something.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

doistu

I have also taken this question to another site and it appears to have caused a problem.

Hard/soft appear to e derogatory to some people and apparently soft poytheism is actually called pantheism.

Pantheism is the belief that everything is part of the divine/God(s).
So I guess if you squint at it and c**k your head, you could see soft polytheism as pantheism...?

Why on earth would it be derogatory to inquire how someone views the different deities? That doesn't make any sense.

Quote:

I dunno if this is a touchy subject which is why it seems to have upset people or something.

I've never seen it as a touchy subject. Most people I talk to don't even know what hard v. soft polytheism is!  

[doistu]

Violet, that seems to apply to this other convo lol. But instead of thinking about it and discussing it they've leapt to accuse me of being high and mighty.

Regardless, I sent an apology saying i wasn't trying to be a witchier-than-thou. I was just have a discussion lol.

Some people are odd.  

[Zabi_baby]

Me im a softy on this subject. For me its like this. When I pray to Athena for help with protecting something, I am just praying to part of the universal whole that governs that part. Kind of like a puzzle. I simply pray to that piece of the puzzle that has protection written on it.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

doistu

Violet, that seems to apply to this other convo lol. But instead of thinking about it and discussing it they've leapt to accuse me of being high and mighty.

Regardless, I sent an apology saying i wasn't trying to be a witchier-than-thou. I was just have a discussion lol.

Some people are odd.

Oh my.
I don't think I would last one day in this other forum you're into!
Yes, how dare you parade around all high-and-mighty with your intelligence and your...your...BRAIN! I tell you, you have some nerve, Doistu
rofl rofl rofl  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Starlock

I think the answer probably varies for each individual, but in general I suspect it's because that particular imagery resonates with them.

I don't understand why imagery of particular deities would have some sort of impact here. Wouldn't it make it more difficult to identify with the divine if you're looking at them through a random lens? The goddess is not actually Athena, Athena is just a lens through which you're viewing her. Why would this be helpful in understanding this goddess?

Quote:

When we work with people, we only work with particular facets of their identity at once.

I don't think people can be shoved into little holes like that depending on how you're looking at them at a particular time. I'm a writer, and a gamer, but I don't stop being a writer when I'm playing Final Fantasy, and I don't stop loving computer games when I'm knee-deep in a plot development. Labels are helpful, but they're not the sum total of who we are at a particular moment.

When I work with a god, I like to work with the god. Massive elements of their personalities don't just disappear simply because I have a particular boon to ask.

Quote:

I like to cook, for example. If we're making a meal together, you're not really involved with me as an entire person, but mostly my "cook aspect." It wouldn't make sense to start asking me about my hobby painting miniatures when cooking;

Of course it would. I might be interested in your hobby painting miniatures. Cooking is boring, and so whilst cooking, I should like to amuse myself by asking you questions about your day or your hobbies and interests.

I mean, if you actually stopped being "yourself" and became "cook" when you were cooking, I would imagine there was something severely wrong with your brain.

Quote:

Does that make more sense?

Actually it only serves to strengthen my suspicion that soft polytheists who work with "facets" don't actually view their deities as people or interact with them in any serious way.  

[doistu]

Violet Song jat Shariff

doistu

Violet, that seems to apply to this other convo lol. But instead of thinking about it and discussing it they've leapt to accuse me of being high and mighty.

Regardless, I sent an apology saying i wasn't trying to be a witchier-than-thou. I was just have a discussion lol.

Some people are odd.

Oh my.
I don't think I would last one day in this other forum you're into!
Yes, how dare you parade around all high-and-mighty with your intelligence and your...your...BRAIN! I tell you, you have some nerve, Doistu
rofl rofl rofl

Haha!! I know I should be reprimanded.

And San-Chan, I agree with you here. It does seem that many soft polytheists tend to not work with induvidual Gods because they don't consider those Gods to be an induvidual if that makes sense.

If a God is only seen as part of a whole then surely its much more difficult to gain a proper perspective and understanding of them?  

[Starlock]

*shrug* Think what you want, I suppose, Sanguina. I think as a hard polytheist you probably simply can't understand the way in which these other people relate to the divine. That's perfectly fine, but I think you should know that some of what you said probably would come off as a bit derogatory towards soft polytheists with that accusation that they're not taking things seriously. Perhaps it's no wonder then that soft polytheists might get uppity with hard polytheists with such statements! I believe they are serious; they simply have their own different manner of working that's distinct from yours and from mine.

It's interesting that you say, Doitsu, that it's more difficult to gain a "proper" understanding of a divine entity by seeing it as part of a greater whole. What's a "proper" understanding? Again, I think what that means is pretty subjective. A soft polytheist's "proper" understanding is in terms of interrelatedness and archetypes and they might see the hard polytheist as taking things out of their greater context. A hard polytheist's "proper" understanding is in terms seeing more individuality and uniqueness so they might see soft polytheists as failing to recognize identity. Then there's people like me who think a "proper" understanding is looking at the divine from any and all possible angles. Then there's the non-theist who might say the "proper" understanding is to realize the idea of gods and goddesses is bull s**t. xd  

[doistu]

Aww starlock, I'm sorry. Of course however you choose to do things is fine. I didn't mean to be snooty about it. Bright blessings