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 Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:19 am
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I noticed in another forum someone had mentioned they were "closed", what exactly does that mean?
I myself have native american in my blood (15% I believe), and I have always been fascinated with them. So, am I free to use a native god/goddess in a practice, or is there certain requirements to do so?
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Also, if any of you know anything about the native american
dieties, I would if you could tell me a bit in your post as well.
Thank you. ^-^
EDIT:
As I posted below, I am not from the south, so I am not 100% for sure cherokee. it's just as likely as the next. I live in Ontario, Canada,, so I probably am Ojibway, or Shawnee, or another one close by. Mind you, I don't know why my grandmother is from, so I can't say for certain.
Also, I understand that I am not a part of the culture because I have it in my blood, I'm just stating that as a side fact.
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:43 am
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Jonathonn I noticed in another forum someone had mentioned they were "closed", what exactly does that mean?
Closed pantheons/cultures usually means that they are not open to worship from anyone; in order to worship the gods in a closed pantheon/culture, one must meet specific requirements. I am unsure what exactly the requirements are for the different Native American gods, but I think active participation in the culture and being recognized by the tribe is a requirement for quite a few.
And, to note, there isn't just one big old "Native American Pantheon." Beliefs and practices varied a lot according to which tribe you are referring to.
Quote: I myself have native american in my blood (15% I believe), and I have always been fascinated with them. So, am I free to use a native god/goddess in a practice, or is there certain requirements to do so?
Pro-tip: Having heritage doesn't make you of a certain culture. The practices, beliefs, customs and such of a culture are not automatically imparted in bloodlines. They are learned via participation.
You would probably want to find out what tribe your Native American blood comes from first and then do more research on them. |
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:58 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:14 am
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:19 am
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My family is Metís - we're Canadian, and the Metís is one of those recognized by our government as a distinct Nation. Not that that has a lot of bearing on the conversation, except to establish I'm familiar with the territory.
Vi's spot on. If you are interested in learning more about a particular Nation's beliefs, research that specific Nation. Seek out elders from that Nation and listen to them.
I know Native American culture is a little different down south, and there's a sort of 'generic' Native religion that's a blender of a bunch of different peoples' religions. But I can't say it strongly enough: There are huge differences between regions, and even in tribes in the same area.
Most tribes, however, are not terribly interested in having non-Natives practicing their religions. White society took almost everything away from them - many feel like their religious beliefs and practices is the very last thing they have, and are holding on to them for dear life. The Lakota, for example, actually declared war on those who would exploit their spirituality: http://puffin.creighton.edu/Lakota/war.html
I cannot tell you how many plastic medicine men and white shamans there are out there, claiming they've all got a Cherokee princess stashed in their geneaology, and that they know all the great medicine secrets of the Indians. The peoples they steal from are rightly outraged.
If you're not part of their tribal culture, you will have a harder time of it. Your best bet, as I said, is to find elders or sharing circles from the Nation you're interested in, and see if they will teach you. Some will share their stories and experiences, but not much else. You may get lucky and find one who will accept you.
But...
It's incredibly difficult to imagine trying to squash Native religion into a neo-pagan structure. It's not at all the same. Understand that most native religions don't have gods, persay. Heroes, monsters, spirits and people...but most only have one 'God', the Great Spirit or Creator. It's a poor fit for Wiccan-flavoured neo-pagan practices.
I practice Native beliefs as well as Wiccan. I just don't blend them in any way, since it would be incredibly disrespectful to both sides of the equation.
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:46 pm
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Violet Song jat Shariff Crew
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:53 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:38 pm
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Tenrai Kado I should be able to help him if he PM's me. Cuz my family is a descendants of a Cherokee Shaman. If I'm able to get into contact with my dead great granmother I should be able to get all the info he needs cuz my great gran was pure cherokee native american.
No offense, but since you're not a member of any of your nation's medicine societies, or in fact even a part of their culture (maybe I missed the part where you were raised in the Cherokee way), I don't think you're the person he needs to be talking to. Without the approval and guidance of an Elder, he's not doing anything more than appropriating what isn't his to appropriate, the same as others before him.
A ghost of her era raised up to teach a non-native person her spirituality - the same non-native people that abused natives in residential schools, forced them onto reserves, and taught them to forget their language, culture, and religion as ignorantr savagery, is not gonna be too pleased that you seem intent on continuing that legacy. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:25 pm
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Tenrai Kado He's Cherokee. In the south mostly everyone have cherokee in us. I have 25%
You might want to be careful of making blanket statements like that. There are quite a few tribes in the South, including...
Apalachee, Chatot, Cherokee, Creeks, Hitchiti, Oconee, Shawnee and Yamasee. (and that is just in Georgia). That's not including the tribes from FL, AL, MS, etc...
My great, great grandparents were full blooded Cherokee as well, it doesn't make me a part of that culture, it just means that I have a bit of Cherokee in me, along with the Irish, Welsh, Scots, and English. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:35 pm
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:44 am
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:18 pm
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ncsweet Tenrai Kado He's Cherokee. In the south mostly everyone have cherokee in us. I have 25% You might want to be careful of making blanket statements like that. There are quite a few tribes in the South, including... Apalachee, Chatot, Cherokee, Creeks, Hitchiti, Oconee, Shawnee and Yamasee. (and that is just in Georgia). That's not including the tribes from FL, AL, MS, etc... My great, great grandparents were full blooded Cherokee as well, it doesn't make me a part of that culture, it just means that I have a bit of Cherokee in me, along with the Irish, Welsh, Scots, and English.
Yeah maybe all ya'll are right. I not the right person to be talking about this.
He needs a Native American Elder to give him the info he wants. And my great gran mother probably might have been mad at me to for contacting her. She's not a social person. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:17 pm
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ncsweet Tenrai Kado He's Cherokee. In the south mostly everyone have cherokee in us. I have 25% You might want to be careful of making blanket statements like that. There are quite a few tribes in the South, including... Apalachee, Chatot, Cherokee, Creeks, Hitchiti, Oconee, Shawnee and Yamasee. (and that is just in Georgia). That's not including the tribes from FL, AL, MS, etc... My great, great grandparents were full blooded Cherokee as well, it doesn't make me a part of that culture, it just means that I have a bit of Cherokee in me, along with the Irish, Welsh, Scots, and English.
quite right, im from alabama and DO have some cherokee in me, but i also have creek (and also irish, hey we might be cousins, lol) |
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:37 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:09 pm
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Jonathonn Tenrai Kado He's Cherokee. In the south mostly everyone have cherokee in us. I have 25% Hm, i doubt it, as I'm from Canada. Those in the south don't really apply to me. I mean, it's just as likely as the next tribe, but ofcoursethis doesn't make it certain.
Understand that there are a lot of families who have ancedotes about having 'Indian blood' in them, but very few actually have the paperwork to show it. It isn't that I really don't believe you, but I am at heart a sceptic, and when you start scraping bloodlines into fractions it boils down to it not really mattering. You're a Canadian,
and that's your culture. Your blood and all the places it may have come from generations ago...doesn't matter, to your culture.
It's the culture that's going to matter, in the end. The blood already is getting thinned out: there are status Indians now whose children will not qualify for status, based on that percentage of Native blood required by the government.
Do some homework, and look more closely at your family's historical and geneological records. In Ontario, there's still quite a few tribes you could be descended from: the Algonquins, the Ojibwe, the Iroquois, the Cree, the Hurons, the Metís.
If you're still determined to pursue it, there are likely Native cultural groups in your area who would put you in contact with local Elders or give you a list of events where you may be able to learn more. |
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