Silver Ravenwolf

[x-moon-x-daughter-x]

ok so ive seen mixed opinions on the author silver ravenwolf. i'd like to hear what you guys think about her

 

[Morgandria]

Link to previous SRW thread  

[Nattfodd]

^ That link sez a lot.

But pretty much, she's a bigot, a hypocrite, a liar, encourages kids to rebel against their parents, encourages people to rebel against christianity and then cries persecution when christianity rebels against them, she has no training in history or anthropology but will go on for hours about how much she 'knows...'

One of my biggest problem with her, though, is that she claims to speak for all witches. Her views are hers and hers alone, and if you want to follow by them, that's fine. But they don't speak for everyone.

And my biggest problem altogether is that she has no clue of what black magic is, but insists that it's bad, and that all witches should be good white witches. All people are balanced. Everyone has the capability of good and evil. If you deny your evil, you will make it stronger. You are not a Jedi (and not even the Jedi could stay pure.)  

[RubyLight]

She is a terrible lier with poor ethics. She encourages kids to lie to their parents!

This comes up alot. There should proably be a sticky in a subforum. 3nodding  

[whiporwill-o]

Nattfodd

^ That link sez a lot.

But pretty much, she's a bigot, a hypocrite, a liar, encourages kids to rebel against their parents, encourages people to rebel against christianity and then cries persecution when christianity rebels against them, she has no training in history or anthropology but will go on for hours about how much she 'knows...'

One of my biggest problem with her, though, is that she claims to speak for all witches. Her views are hers and hers alone, and if you want to follow by them, that's fine. But they don't speak for everyone.

And my biggest problem altogether is that she has no clue of what black magic is, but insists that it's bad, and that all witches should be good white witches. All people are balanced. Everyone has the capability of good and evil. If you deny your evil, you will make it stronger.

i second  

[doistu]

I agree that a thread relating to Dollarwolf should be stickied because she comes up enough.

I can't say more than what has already been said. She's a bigoted, lying, hate mongerer and while I regret buying into her fluffy crap I feel that some of her books opened up doors to me...

...because they were so s**t I felt I had to go and look for something more substantial and reliable.  

[Starlock]

Starlock finds much of the negativity surrounding the author to be greatly exaggerated and some of her works to be very spiritually inspired. Just because a style isn't to your liking doesn't mean one has to trash talk an individual author you does not know personally; to me that's slander, plain and simple.

Besides, I'm sorry, but to call someone a "hate mongerer" or a "bigot" when they don't publish hate literature or take other overtly malevolent actions is a bit of a stretch. A hate mongerer describes, for example, those "Christians" who have organized protests against gay people and try to rally people to vote against legalizing gay marriage.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Starlock

Starlock finds much of the negativity surrounding the author to be greatly exaggerated and some of her works to be very spiritually inspired. Just because a style isn't to your liking doesn't mean one has to trash talk an individual author you does not know personally; to me that's slander, plain and simple.

It's not that we simply disagree with the way she writes.
People take umbrage to her due to the fact that she assumes to speak for ALL witches. People dislike her misusing a title that doesn't accurately describe her faith. People dislike her encouraging teenagers to lie to their parents and practice behind their backs if the parents tell the teen not to pursue witchcraft. People dislike her faulty portrayal of history as a soapbox to caw on and on about "nevr agin teh burnyng tym3z!"

These things are not stylistic.

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Besides, I'm sorry, but to call someone a "hate mongerer" or a "bigot" when they don't publish hate literature or take other overtly malevolent actions is a bit of a stretch. A hate mongerer describes, for example, those "Christians" who have organized protests against gay people and try to rally people to vote against legalizing gay marriage.

Except that given the way she talks about Christianity in her books, she can be defined as a bigot.
Merriam-Webster sends their regards.  

[Nattfodd]

Starlock

Starlock finds much of the negativity surrounding the author to be greatly exaggerated and some of her works to be very spiritually inspired. Just because a style isn't to your liking doesn't mean one has to trash talk an individual author you does not know personally; to me that's slander, plain and simple.

It's not about her style. I can admire the "easy to digest" reading, but the simple fact of the matter is that she's wrong and asserts that she is right. Furthermore, she knows she is wrong, and to those who would bring anthropological evidence forward to her, claims they are CHRISTIAN FABRICATION and PERSECUTION. This is unacceptable, especially coming from a person who fabricated most of her books.

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Besides, I'm sorry, but to call someone a "hate mongerer" or a "bigot" when they don't publish hate literature or take other overtly malevolent actions is a bit of a stretch. A hate mongerer describes, for example, those "Christians" who have organized protests against gay people and try to rally people to vote against legalizing gay marriage.

I present, for your reconsideration:

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There are two kinds of [divinatory] readings, those for magickal people and those for "once-borns" (a term Bried Foxsong, publisher of Sacred Hart, uses). Once-borns belong to other religions that do not believe in reincarnation or magick. (Page 152)

A once-born will get "hooked" before a magickal person, because they are totally unfamiliar with the intricacies of magick and divination. (Page 15 cool

Just in case you non-Christians thought you would be spared Ravenwolf's diatribe, don't fear, she hasn't forgotten you. Apparently all non-Pagans are so incredibly simple that they must be given special tarot readings (or other divining method) because they just can't handle a full-blown one.

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Burning Times: You will hear this often. It is in reference to a historical time from about 1000 CE through the 17th century when it is said that over nine million people were tortured and burned by church and public officials on the assumption that they were the Christian version of Witches...Historians indicated that the majority of people tortured and murdered were women and children. (Page 19)

While she doesn't flat out say it was "we" who were persecuted, why would she include this in her book if it had nothing to do with us? And try 40,000 to 100,000, not over nine million.

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Directed specifically at teens is the following advice about explaining Wicca to parents:

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Then we've got the double sneak-attack - working only with angels. Angels, angels everywhere and Mom or Dad won't even care. Sure, because everyone likes angels.2

I don't know what they call this approach in Ravenwolf's world, but where I come from this is called lying. Angels have little to nothing to do with Wicca. Oh, and another clue: if "sneak-attack" is an apt description for a plan to deal with parents, the ethics of such a plan should be seriously questioned.

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If you intend to grovel before a God form, please stop here and throw this book away…The common act of sniveling at their feet is unacceptable. If you truly want that type of relationship with "higher-ups", there are plenty of well-cultured religions that will gladly open their arms to you. (page 43)

I cannot think of any religion that would describe its practices as "sniveling," and portrayal of another religion as such without so much as a reference is...unprofessional to say the least. "The common act" indicates that she thinks this sort of behavior is widespread - while she doesn't actually name Christianity as the offender here, I don't think I'm out of line inferring that's who she meant, although maybe there are other religions she's also attempting to slam.

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I believe one of the biggest problems Witches face today is the influx of Christianity and its "turn the other cheek" melodrama. More and more individuals are leaving the Christian Kingdom in favor of ours, but they bring with them brains that have been hammered for years with another philosophy. (Page 270)

All from Wicca: For the rest of us.  

[RubyLight]

One of the best examples of her methodology I've seen in awhile. Kudos! biggrin  

[Starlock]

Oh, I'm familiar with that essay. It's not hard to make an essay similar to that for any book and pull quotes out of context to make another look bad. Such essays are unfair and biased in that they only look through a negative lens and fail to give light to positive aspects or sections which contradict the reviewer's conclusions. I decided to read some of her works and make my own judgements after reading essays like these ones and I'm glad I did. I embarked on that in part because someone I admired owned a couple of her works and this seemed a confusing contradiction to me. Surely this person who knew her stuff so well wouldn't own such crap? Turns out the two books she owned of Silver's are actually worth reading and I learned some interesting new things from them. Some of her other books I have read (or tried to read and couldn't bring myself to read through), however, I will say make me go "BLECH!!!"

I'm weary of damning any author in their entirety because if I were giving someone spiritual advice (as we all do at some point on forums like these), I would want them to feel comfortable seeking out any and all resources that might help them on their journey. I recognize that just because something didn't help me or I went "BLECH!!" at it, doesn't mean it might not help them. In a way, reading that which you disagree with helps to crystalize your path better than reading from your own choir. It can be good to read things you think are a load of crap every so often. mrgreen  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Starlock

Oh, I'm familiar with that essay. It's not hard to make an essay similar to that for any book and pull quotes out of context to make another look bad. Such essays are unfair and biased in that they only look through a negative lens and fail to give light to positive aspects or sections which contradict the reviewer's conclusions.

I just totally won a bet.
biggrin

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I decided to read some of her works and make my own judgements after reading essays like these ones and I'm glad I did. I embarked on that in part because someone I admired owned a couple of her works and this seemed a confusing contradiction to me. Surely this person who knew her stuff so well wouldn't own such crap? Turns out the two books she owned of Silver's are actually worth reading and I learned some interesting new things from them. Some of her other books I have read (or tried to read and couldn't bring myself to read through), however, I will say make me go "BLECH!!!"

I have heard a few folks say her first books aren't too awful, but her more recent ones need to be tied to a cinder block and tossed to the deepest part of the oceans.

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I'm weary of damning any author in their entirety because if I were giving someone spiritual advice (as we all do at some point on forums like these), I would want them to feel comfortable seeking out any and all resources that might help them on their journey. I recognize that just because something didn't help me or I went "BLECH!!" at it, doesn't mean it might not help them. In a way, reading that which you disagree with helps to crystalize your path better than reading from your own choir. It can be good to read things you think are a load of crap every so often. mrgreen

I would like to note, FWIW, that nowhere else in this guild has anyone said other neo-pagan authors are pure and without fault. We know they aren't perfect and have some slips and half-truths in their books as well. However, I can't think of any others who claim a faulty lineage while claiming to be Wiccan. Or encourage bigotry towards Christians. Or encourage kids to lie to their parents. If you can provide me with another neo-pagan author who does this, I promise to rip them a new s**t-hole as well. Actually, I think this is the second time I've asked this of you.

I have to wonder; how is conveying bigotry to someone helping them grow spiritually? How is telling kids it's okay to lie to their parents so they can do whatever they want helping them grow not only spiritually, but as people?  

[Nattfodd]

Starlock

Oh, I'm familiar with that essay. It's not hard to make an essay similar to that for any book and pull quotes out of context to make another look bad. Such essays are unfair and biased in that they only look through a negative lens and fail to give light to positive aspects or sections which contradict the reviewer's conclusions.

I've read a variety of other fluffy authors and none of them feel the need to go to the extent that she does.

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I decided to read some of her works and make my own judgements after reading essays like these ones and I'm glad I did. I embarked on that in part because someone I admired owned a couple of her works and this seemed a confusing contradiction to me. Surely this person who knew her stuff so well wouldn't own such crap? Turns out the two books she owned of Silver's are actually worth reading and I learned some interesting new things from them. Some of her other books I have read (or tried to read and couldn't bring myself to read through), however, I will say make me go "BLECH!!!"

I own Teen Witch and "The Ultimate Book of Shadows," both of which some people consider fairly good, and they're both garbage. They're good to own because I can pull up my own ridiculous quote from them. I just didn't feel like doing so in this instance.

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I'm weary of damning any author in their entirety because if I were giving someone spiritual advice (as we all do at some point on forums like these), I would want them to feel comfortable seeking out any and all resources that might help them on their journey. I recognize that just because something didn't help me or I went "BLECH!!" at it, doesn't mean it might not help them. In a way, reading that which you disagree with helps to crystalize your path better than reading from your own choir. It can be good to read things you think are a load of crap every so often. mrgreen

I have no problem against people reading garbage, but i'll put it out there -- it's garbage. And if you choose to believe it, i'm going to think your beliefs are garbage, too, because accepting Ravenwolf as anything near truthful or useful is saying that you're just too lazy or ignorant to find a better source.  

[x-moon-x-daughter-x]

ok so thank you guys for the opinions... wow....

ok well i have one of her books and i was looking at buying at least 2 others plus i borrowed one from a friend. the book i borrowed was TeenWitch and it was what got me Into wicca, besides my friend talking about it. i understand that you guys dont like how she lies and encourages lying against parents. you have also said that she doesnt know anything about Wicca and that her practices are faulty. however, i have another book Not by her that parallels with some of the practices she mentions pretty well... such as circle casting and sacred space creation.

so pretty much you guys have given me Ample evidence of her lies. my next question to you guys is exactly what Practices of hers do you not agree with? i feel that she has at least helped me to understand the basics... if she doesnt know anything about the more advanced things then i should Love to know before i waste more money

 

[x-moon-x-daughter-x]

oh and also i understand that some of you dont like her beliefs but to actually say they're garbage... it may be "garbage" to you, but im sorry i feel that if someone believes something and it brings them to a higher spiritual level then it is important to them and they deserve to have their beliefs respected. everyone is different and i believe that everyone has a right to different beliefs.

... just saying