Abortion: Right to Live or Right to Choose? | Page 1 | *~Purple Moonlight Haze~* | Guild Forums

Zizzykitty
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:32 pm

We haven't had a serious thread for a while, have we?
I thought it was time to to make one.

So abortion.
Touchy subject
What do you think?
Please back up your argument if you can.
It doesn't have to be fact, since abortion is mostly a moral debate, but give your argument on why you believe what you do.
And it may be hard but please do not attack religion since it always seems to have a hand in these debates.

My opinion:
I will say right now I support a woman's right to choose.
But Zizzy, what if your mother aborted you?
Well, I'll tell you a story...
My mother did consider aborting me.
I wasn't an unwanted teen pregnancy or anything, she was already married when I was conceived.
The reason abortion was considered was because there was a chance I would have Down Syndrome.
My mother did not want to bring a mentally challenged child into this world.
I have friends who have autistic siblings and I see what stress it causes.
I see that those friends will most likely be stuck with that sibling for the rest of their life except for few rare cases.
So if she'd found out that I would be mentally challenged for sure then no one should blame her for aborting.

I believe that abortion should be allowed definitely in cases of rape and incest.
I also believe that it should be allowed when the mother knows ahead of time that the child will have a disease or disorder that will affect them for the rest of their life and the mother believes it will help the child more to not let it be born than to live a miserable life.

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:07 pm

I hope you haven't just opened a can of worms.

I've seen many abortion debates throughout my life.

Common things I've seen/heard:
-"It's just a fetus. It's not a baby."
"It's part of the woman, therefore it's not a life of it's own."
-"What if a 12 year old was raped?"
-"Put it up for adoption." followed by "Adopted kids hate their lives."
-"God wouldn't want you to do that."
-"What if you didn't want to get you girlfriend pregnant?/What if someone else got your girlfriend pregnant?"
-"Don't have sex."
-"Anti-choice!"
-"Anti-life!"

The list goes on, but, like many political debates, it boils down to each side stating the same thing over and over and no one changing viewpoints.

They tend to be like this:
User Image

But much more vicious.

With that being said, it's time to stick my neck out.

I'm pro-life. Hate me all you want for it; although I think it would be a dumb reason.
-I see it as a life at conception.
-Even if it weren't a life yet, it's certainly going to be one.
-You don't actually know if the child will have a bad life. I also think it is better to have a bad life than no life.
-In the case of rape: should the child pay for the sins of the father?
-And before anyone tries to call me on it: no, the previous point was not a religious reason.

I do, however, think it is acceptable to abort if the mother or child's life is in danger because of the pregnancy.

There is nothing any of you can say to change my mind, and I do not expect to change any of your minds. Don't bother flaming me over it.

Dornkus
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Chaosctrl

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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:21 pm

Pretty much what Dornkus said.

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:33 pm

I'm hoping I didn't open a can of worms either.
We seem to be pretty easy going in the guild though so I think we'll be fine.

Since abortion debates are mostly moral and political it does tend to go how you said.
That little animation is perfect for it, actually.

Thanks for sticking your neck out.
We couldn't hate you for an opinion even if it's one I disagree with.

You do have some valid points.

I just believe with rape it should be the woman's choice.
I think forcing her to raise a child she was raped to conceive is punishing her in a way.
She could very well put it up for adoption but that's a whole different argument.
That child will remind her every day that she was raped and depending on the mental state of that mother it could really take its toll on her.

We shouldn't punish the child for the father's sins but should we punish the mother for being a victim?

I'm not trying to change your mind but I think debates open possibilities and being thoughts that people may not have considered before.

Zizzykitty
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:49 pm

In cases of rape, or endangering the mother or child's life, I absolutely think abortion should be an option.

I don't condone irresponsible behavior however. If you get your girlfriend pregnant, that's your responsibility. If you couldn't handle a child, you shouldn't have been risking it.

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:55 pm

I am also pro-life.

Dornkus has already stated the same reasons as I have for my decision. And the mother doesn't have to raise the child. There are a lot of people waiting and wanting to adopt-even I hope to adopt one day.

As for the only place I deem it ok is when the life of the mother is at risk,

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Zizzykitty
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:06 pm

There are plenty of willing parents but there aren't enough.
If there were more parents willing to adopt then there wouldn't be shortages of foster parents.
People are also stubborn and want to raise their own children
I've also heard it is difficult and expensive to be able to adopt.
I started looking into it when I realized I'd rather do that then birth a child.

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:39 am

Im split down the center seeing as how its a womens right to choose Like goldman said in case of rape or life indangerment the right is all your's [not litterly.] But if your in there on a monthly basis, Heres a tip its called a condom its allot cheaper. But other then the people that wana have sex and not have the prize that comes 8 months later it would probably be best if they were restricted to a certain number of abortions like maybe 2 at most. Other then that if you wana have sex and not have the baby, Condoms god made them for a reason.

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Zizzykitty
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:12 am

Andy _1134

Im split down the center seeing as how its a womens right to choose Like goldman said in case of rape or life indangerment the right is all your's [not litterly.] But if your in there on a monthly basis, Heres a tip its called a condom its allot cheaper. But other then the people that wana have sex and not have the prize that comes 8 months later it would probably be best if they were restricted to a certain number of abortions like maybe 2 at most. Other then that if you wana have sex and not have the baby, Condoms god made them for a reason.

That is true.
I was discussing with a friend once and I made that exact point.

I don't want unlimited abortions for a woman because I am pro choice.
I actually think that 2 a month is too many.
Add that up and that's 24 abortions in a year.
If you need that many abortions I think you need a different kind of help an abortion clinic cannot offer.

I would say limit how many abortions someone can have.
One of the circumstances like rape, life threatening, etc would not count towards your max for the year.

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:06 am

Personally, i belive that abortion is the personal choice of the mother (or couple) that created the baby.

In the end, any political or moral conversation on the subject is a moot point. it's the individual sentiments of the mother that choose. and, since a baby(or person) is a lifelong commitment - a life - quite frankly, if the motehr decides one way or the other there is nothing anyone can do to stop her form carrying out her decision. it's just too important.
If she doesn't want it and it's illegal, she'll start harming herself to be rid of it.v And, as history shows us, often die in the process.

So I belive the issue is how safe we can make it for the people involved. why cause unecessary suffering.
If you want to prevent abortions, then focus on education and aviliability fo contraception and alternatives.
Also, one must do their best to abort the baby at the earliest point, when intelligence and feeling hasn't entered the organism.

Other than that i absolutely belive in pro choice. it becomes a sore subject with me when it comes to how late one can abort, but that's another debate entirely.

So i belive you have the right to choose 100%. but my personal sentiments are pro-life. Personally i could not bring myself to abort any potential life unless there is a very serious handicap to the child that destroys its quality of life.
But that's my personal beliefs. It shouldn't intefere with other people's rights to choose what they think is right, safe and livable for them.

dragontamer363
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Zizzykitty
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:50 pm

dragontamer363

Personally, i belive that abortion is the personal choice of the mother (or couple) that created the baby.

In the end, any political or moral conversation on the subject is a moot point. it's the individual sentiments of the mother that choose. and, since a baby(or person) is a lifelong commitment - a life - quite frankly, if the motehr decides one way or the other there is nothing anyone can do to stop her form carrying out her decision. it's just too important.
If she doesn't want it and it's illegal, she'll start harming herself to be rid of it.v And, as history shows us, often die in the process.

So I belive the issue is how safe we can make it for the people involved. why cause unecessary suffering.
If you want to prevent abortions, then focus on education and aviliability fo contraception and alternatives.
Also, one must do their best to abort the baby at the earliest point, when intelligence and feeling hasn't entered the organism.

Other than that i absolutely belive in pro choice. it becomes a sore subject with me when it comes to how late one can abort, but that's another debate entirely.

So i belive you have the right to choose 100%. but my personal sentiments are pro-life. Personally i could not bring myself to abort any potential life unless there is a very serious handicap to the child that destroys its quality of life.
But that's my personal beliefs. It shouldn't intefere with other people's rights to choose what they think is right, safe and livable for them.

That is true.
I forgot about back alley abortions.
People are going to find a way to do what they want to do.

The time people are allowed to abort is definitely a touchy issue.
I can't remember after what time it is considered inhumane, is it 5 months and after?
But I definitely think if you want one then get it done ASAP.

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:16 pm

Oh not 2 abortions a month more like a year.

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Moonlight_HuangHou
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:00 am

Well here's my opinion. ^_^
I'm for women's right. If she wants to abort a child then she should have a choice to do so and not have strangers tell her that she can't. And like someone else said, people would find away around the law anyway putting the child AND mother at risk. Though I'm for pro-choice I'm also for pro-life unless you know the child would have severe side effects or wouldn't be able to have a good home then I personally would keep the baby.
I also heard it's very expensive and long process to adopt a child. And in the US for example...mostly other nations children are adopted by Americans more than American children that need foster parents.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:29 pm

Moonlight_HuangHou

Well here's my opinion. ^_^
I'm for women's right. If she wants to abort a child then she should have a choice to do so and not have strangers tell her that she can't. And like someone else said, people would find away around the law anyway putting the child AND mother at risk. Though I'm for pro-choice I'm also for pro-life unless you know the child would have severe side effects or wouldn't be able to have a good home then I personally would keep the baby.
I also heard it's very expensive and long process to adopt a child. And in the US for example...mostly other nations children are adopted by Americans more than American children that need foster parents.

Haha true - it's like charity donations in general: people think that teh stuff in otehr countries are more important and neglect teh simpler but still dire stuff at home. Admittedly problems like Africa are HUGE, but they stem down to corrupt governments, inadequate farming and lac of industrialisation - problems that no amount fo charity money can solve. they require the country to mature over perhaps hundreds of years, just like ours did.
Whereas a few quid at home can do a lot more and not get eaten up so easily.
I once saw a comedy sketch show about a couple trying to adopt, and how they rejected white kids because "how else will other people know that we adopted them (and how kind/self-sacrificing we are)?"
It's extreme but i think this whole adopting foriegn children thing has an element fo that 'look! look! it's not ours really!' element to it.

-ahem-

but yes, back on topic. I agree. I think making abortion illegal is just the same as making suicide illegal (which it is in the UK still I think. i now euthanasea genrally is) - it never stops people who want to do it form doing it. It doesn't even act as deterrant. These are desperate and personal issues for an individual. If you want to go jump off a bridge, you'll bloody well go jump off a bridge. Because it serves its purpose. the problem is deleted.

dragontamer363
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Moonlight_HuangHou
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:47 am

dragontamer363

Moonlight_HuangHou

Well here's my opinion. ^_^
I'm for women's right. If she wants to abort a child then she should have a choice to do so and not have strangers tell her that she can't. And like someone else said, people would find away around the law anyway putting the child AND mother at risk. Though I'm for pro-choice I'm also for pro-life unless you know the child would have severe side effects or wouldn't be able to have a good home then I personally would keep the baby.
I also heard it's very expensive and long process to adopt a child. And in the US for example...mostly other nations children are adopted by Americans more than American children that need foster parents.

Haha true - it's like charity donations in general: people think that teh stuff in otehr countries are more important and neglect teh simpler but still dire stuff at home. Admittedly problems like Africa are HUGE, but they stem down to corrupt governments, inadequate farming and lac of industrialisation - problems that no amount fo charity money can solve. they require the country to mature over perhaps hundreds of years, just like ours did.
Whereas a few quid at home can do a lot more and not get eaten up so easily.
I once saw a comedy sketch show about a couple trying to adopt, and how they rejected white kids because "how else will other people know that we adopted them (and how kind/self-sacrificing we are)?"
It's extreme but i think this whole adopting foriegn children thing has an element fo that 'look! look! it's not ours really!' element to it.

-ahem-

but yes, back on topic. I agree. I think making abortion illegal is just the same as making suicide illegal (which it is in the UK still I think. i now euthanasea genrally is) - it never stops people who want to do it form doing it. It doesn't even act as deterrant. These are desperate and personal issues for an individual. If you want to go jump off a bridge, you'll bloody well go jump off a bridge. Because it serves its purpose. the problem is deleted.

lol That comedy sounds funny. But it's maybe true in some cases. In other cases adoptions are sadly just for money for some people. I heard of this lady that adopted lots of mentally unstable kids but it was just to get money. She tortured them like having them do work, barely eat or nothing at all sometimes and not even good rooms. One of them had the sense to escape and can tell it was wrong which is how she got caught....

"Admittedly problems like Africa are HUGE, but they stem down to corrupt governments, inadequate farming and lac of industrialisation - problems that no amount fo charity money can solve"
True true! They also need more schools I believe... The whole problem with AID's (?) is just terrible. I saw this video in school how women have it really though if they have that and even though some get it from men they are the ones who are disgusted and looked down upon. It's terrible. And how people believe it's contagious by just being near a person with it. So they're kind of shun out of society.

Back on subject:
Suicide is illigal in UK?

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