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 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:22 am
Before I start, for those of you that don't speak English as a first language, ****** is being sexually attracted to children. Is there anything in the Qur'an that could even be interpreted to be a reference to ****** in Paradise? Read this link AFTER you post, please. The bit I'm talking about is right at the bottom, with a sub-heading "boys". I'd also like to point out that your 'Houris' sound more like young girls and less like women. I'm certainally glad there'll be no sex in the real Heaven. =) http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/islam/72virgins_and_boys.htm
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:55 am
Voldemort point two Before I start, for those of you that don't speak English as a first language, ****** is being sexually attracted to children. Is there anything in the Qur'an that could even be interpreted to be a reference to ****** in Paradise? Read this link AFTER you post, please. The bit I'm talking about is right at the bottom, with a sub-heading "boys". I'd also like to point out that your 'Houris' sound more like young girls and less like women. I'm certainally glad there'll be no sex in the real Heaven. =) http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/islam/72virgins_and_boys.htm No kids in heaven? Damn, then i gotta make 50 kids in 50 years? crying heheh biggrin Well, Muhammad(saw) married a girl which were only 6 year old, but diden't go together until she was around the teenager age. but they both need akal(universal word for brain) i guess, cuz 2 babys shoulden't get married.
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:59 am
Click. The. Link.
Your own Qur'an says that you'll have little boys along with the female virgins. How do you feel about that, hmm?
By the "real Heaven" I wasn't talking about an Islamic Heaven.
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:49 am
Zaaki don't speak anything unless you have proof.
whats was the name of the girl who was married to Prophet Mohammad (SAW) at the age of 6?(Nauzbillah)
Does Quran speak of it? or Do Hadiths speak of it? if yes show it to me, if no then don't speak.
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:28 am
Tassan!! it's been ages since the last time I saw you.. blaugh About this.. umm.. I'll try my best to answer it.. First of all, the verse is talking about the after-life, which none of us know 100% exactly about it, since one of us has experienced it. And Al-Quran can't be taken directly without we learn about it first. And by learn, I mean not just knowing, but understanding the meaning of it. And to be honest, I'm not at that level yet. From the language itself, I don't know what's the meaning of 'wildaanun'. While some say it as 'boy', but I find in some other verses that it's used to describe both male and female. So are they really intended for the women's partner in heaven? Maybe someone from Arab can help with this. Also from my source of Quran translation (I can't translate them by myself. It's not my primary language), in 56:17 (1 of your example) mention: Quote: 17. Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness), And from this, 'youth', at least in my language, isn't used ONLY for children. those with age around 20++ is also called 'Youth'. And we know in heaven, there's no old man. Everyone will be returned to their 'youth', their best form. And for their role that stated in next verse, they're the servant. And in (again) 56:17, their role is also mentioned to Quote: 18. With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains: 19. No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication: 20. And with fruits, any that they may select: 21. And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire. They're bringing the foods of heaven, but there aren't any saying that they're your 'partner'. Beside, I'm sure you'll lose your appetite if you're served by ugly people, won't you? wink As usual, I'm apoligizing first if there's any mistake in my writing. I hope you understand what I want to say. And Allah know best about this after-life thing and everything.
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:58 am
And talking about the link you provided, Quote: Muslims are motivated to terrorism because the Quran tells them that fighting non-believers is a duty of every Muslim and the only way to be certain of going to heaven to enjoy untold sensual pleasures is to die fighting in the cause of Allah. Only when those non-believers fights us first! Undtold? This is why he has such point of view because he believes what he listens Quote: QURAN 37:40-4 : "In the Gardens of Paradise, Facing one another on thrones, Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine; White, delicious to the drinkers, Neither they will have any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, or sin, nor will they suffer intoxication from it. And with them will be chaste females, restraining their glances, with wide and beautiful eyes." I don't understand this "QURAN 37:40-4" he has mentioned something that does not exist, Quran chapter no: 37 from 40 to 4? - He does not even know its 40 to 48. Quote: (QURAN 44:51-55): "Verily! The righteous will be in Paradise. Among Gardens and Springs; Dressed in fine silk and also in thick silk, facing each other, and We shall marry them to Houris with wide, lovely eyes." It does not say houris here, it explains what houris are, but well its fine. Quote: (QURAN 52: 17-20): "Verily, for those who fear Allah there will be Gardens in Paradise, filled with Delight. Enjoying in that which their Lord has bestowed on them, and the fact that their Lord saved them from the torment of the blazing Fire. The Lord will say: ‘Eat and drink with happiness because of what you used to do’. They will recline with ease on thrones arranged in ranks. And We shall marry them to Houris with wide lovely eyes." Here it does not say for those who fear, but for those who abstain from bad deeds(deeds that are forbidding by Allah), but else I don't find any problem. Quote: (QURAN 55:54-59): "Reclining upon the couches lined with silk brocade, and the fruits of the Gardens will be near at hand. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Wherein will be those houris, restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse before. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? In beauty they are like rubies and coral. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny?" It does not talk about this "whom no man or jinn has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse before" it does not mention anything of sexual intercourse, it says that those houris will be so much pure that neither any man or any jin would have touched them. Quote: (QURAN 55:70-77): "Therein gardens will be fair wives good and beautiful; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Houris restrained in pavilions; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Whom no man has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse before. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Reclining on green cushions and rich beautiful mattresses. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny?" Again it does not talk about sexual intercourse but as I mentioned above. Quote: (QURAN 56:37-40): "...We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand…." The meaning he has mentions appears to be from 37-38 and not 37-40. Else its all correct according to me. Quote: (QURAN 78:31-34): "As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup." Its Correct again according to me and the translation of Quran I have. Quote: Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Quran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, Note it down that he says that NO WHERE IT IS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF HOURIS available in paradise. Quote: and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 AD) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Quranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'." Al Tirmidhi (Rh) (the author of the hadith) has classified this hadith as " Gharib". According to Al Tirmidhi (Rh) a Hadith may be classified as Gharib for one of the following three reasons: 1. A tradition may be classified as Gharib since it is narrated from one chain only. Tirmidhi mentions as an example a Hadith from Hammad b. Salama from Abu 'Usharai on the authority of his father who enquired from the Prophet (S.A.W.) whether the slaughtering of an animal is confined to the gullet and throat. The Prophet (S.A.W.) replied that stabbing the thigh will also suffice. 2. A tradition can be classified as Gharib due to an addition in the text, though it will be considered a sound tradition, if that addition is reported by a reliable reporter. The example cited by Tirmidhi is a tradition narrated through the chain of Malik (d. 179 A.H.) from Nafi' (d. 117 A.H.) on the authority of Ibn 'Umar (d. 73 A.H.) who stated that the Prophet (S.A.W.) declared alms-giving at the end of Ramadan (month of fasting) obligatory upon every Muslim, male or female, whether a free person or slave from the Muslims. However, this tradition has also been narrated by Ayyub Sakhtiyani and 'Ubaid Allah b. 'Umar, without the addition "from the "Muslims", hence the above mentioned example due to the addition of "from the Muslims" in the text is classified as Gharib. 3. A tradition may be declared Gharib since it is narrated through various chains of transmitters but having within one of its chains an addition in the Sanad. According to Tirmidhi, these definitions prove that a Gharib Hadith, does not necessarily mean weak, but it might be Sahih or Hasan, as long as it comes through a single Sanad. So what we can say is that we are not sure if the Hadith given by the author is a correct hadith or it is amalgamated, and I would like to add to the information that most of the hadiths provided by Al trimdhi are amalgamated which is why I only prefer to go with hadiths provided by Sahih Bhukhari and Sahih Muslim. Quote: An Hamas spokesman correctly uses the word martyr (shahid) and not suicide bomber, since those who blow themselves up almost daily in Israel and those who died on September 11 were dying in the noblest of all causes, Jihad, which is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Quran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined for the purpose of advancing Islam. While suicide is forbidden, martyrdom is everywhere praised, welcomed, and urged: "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way..."; "The Prophet said, 'Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom. I know of the Hadith he has given and that is true but Jihad is a huge topic to discuss, so I am not going to talk about it here, If you want to know about it then create a topic about it and I will Inshallah reply. But I would still like to know if you had a single thought that this man(the author) did not give any proof that suicide bombing is allowed in Islam. Quote: Eternal erection and virginity Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 AD) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 AD) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 AD), Quranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the p***s of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas." I think he was unable to find anything to prove this paragraph…(reason is because there does not exist any thing) Quote: Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls. Firstly those who do sins like homo(/sex), rape, loot and murder in this life DON'T GO TO PARADISE! Quote: (QURAN 52:24): "And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls." (QURAN 56:17): "They will be served by immortal boys." (QURAN 76:19): "And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls." وَيَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَانٌ لَهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ لُؤْلُؤٌ مَكْنُونٌ Quran [52:25] "And there will wait upon them youths of their own, as though they were pearls well-preserved." EXPLANATION : Ghilman(servants) is plural of Ghulam(servant) which means, a youth; servant; son; etc. (Lane). The word has also been used in the Qur'an synonymously with Walad in the sense of son (3:41; 15:54; 19:8; 37:102; 51:29). Elsewhere in the Qur'an (76:20), the word Wildan (sons) has been substituted for Ghilman which shows that the youths who will move about in the company of the righteous in Paradise will be their own sons. The verse may also refer to the Divine promise of great wealth and power which was to fall into the possession of the Muslims and to the hosts of servants who were to wait upon them. And since its their own sons, I hope you won't tell me that its no big deal if they do sex together? Quote: It is common in Arabic poetry to glorify homosexuality, take their famous poet Abu Nuwas: O the joy of sodomy! So now be sodomites, you Arabs. Turn not away from it-- therein is wondrous pleasure. Take some coy lad with kiss-curls twisting on his temple and ride as he stands like some gazelle standing to her mate. A lad whom all can see girt with sword and belt not like your whore who has to go veiled. Make for smooth-faced boys and do your very best to mount them, for women are the mounts of the devils I thought we were talking about Religion and NOT literature… :S Quote: One of the reasons Nietzsche hated Christianity was that it "made something unclean out of sexuality", whereas Islam, many would argue, was sex-positive. One cannot imagine any of the Church fathers writing ecstatically of heavenly sex as al-Suyuti did, with the possible exception of St Augustine before his conversion. In our Western world where many scientist purportedly believe in Evolution when in fact they do not inside, it is reported that when confronted with a question on this dichotomy of mind, their usual answer is: "I must believe in Evolution and reject Christianity for Christianity limits my sex life". It seems then that this promise of sensual happiness and sexual bliss in paradise, not only is the motivator for the Islamic terrorists but it may even be a motivator for our secular evolutionists to join the rank of Islam. Well if Islam is really the motivator for the Islamic terrorists and your secular evolutionists, why did Quran hide the number of virgins and servants a man was going to get? I mean come on if I tell a person that I will give you virgins he will be happy of course but if I tell him the number of virgins and servants and that be in huge amounts, then a dumb person can say that they would be even happier, for example if Islam told the terrorists the number of servants and virgins they get then they would have done so many 9/11s instead of just one! Its so simple logic! I hope that answers your question. (and his blame) PS1: There's a difference between child and youth. PS2: Whats the name of the author btw?
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:06 am
Guess what? look at his contact info. Quote: Name: aymon de albatrus Occupation: a bond slave of Christ Jesus Qualification: a graced sinner Citizenship: the kingdom of God Address: under the footstool of the Father Expected Age: eternity Main Hobby: obey, worship, agape and enjoy the Lord forever he calls himself a graced sinner and he is citizen of the kingdom of god and he is eternal! wow, so isn't he a god? (Allah forbid) he is in human form and eternal! what else you can expect from such a person?
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:53 pm
tassan Only when those non-believers fights us first!
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:58 pm
tassan he calls himself a graced sinner and he is citizen of the kingdom of god and he is eternal! wow, so isn't he a god? (Allah forbid) he is in human form and eternal! what else you can expect from such a person? A graced sinner. Yes, all Christians are graced sinners. Meaning, sinners who have recieved grace. That's what sets Christianity appart from Islam. You believe you can climb the metaphorical mountain of perfection. We realise that it's imposible and that only God can make us perfect by His grace. Eternal. He said expected age. Meaning that he will live forever. So no, he's not God, he's a graced sinner. God's grace means eternal life. I think you can expect that such a person got a couple of mistakes. ... rofl
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:58 pm
Voldemort point two Click. The. Link. Your own Qur'an says that you'll have little boys along with the female virgins. How do you feel about that, hmm? By the "real Heaven" I wasn't talking about an Islamic Heaven. what the heck.. dude, its still heaven.. there is no such thing as a fake heaven and a real heaven. There is only one heaven, and that is where God resides
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:17 am
Voldemort point two A graced sinner. Yes, all Christians are graced sinners. Meaning, sinners who have recieved grace. That's what sets Christianity appart from Islam. Exactly, we don't call ourself so high because islam does not teach us to self preach our selves. EDIT: i don't get it, why sinners recieve the grace? don't you think it symbolises only those who do sin? i know that we all human beings do sins, but there are people who try not to, and those are the ones who are superior than those who do sins, but those who succeed in not doing sins are more superior than both of them, and in the end, we can't call them sinners because they have done more good deeds as compared to their sins, so don't you think your god did not think much before writing in? i am sorry but tell me if i am wrong, i hope you have an explanation.Voldemort point two You believe you can climb the metaphorical mountain of perfection. We realise that it's imposible and that only God can make us perfect by His grace. I never said that we can be perfect, i never used the word perfect, actually i never mentioned the word "we" Voldemort point two Eternal. He said expected age. Meaning that he will live forever. So no, he's not God, he's a graced sinner. God's grace means eternal life. So, sice all christians are graced sinners, and have expected age of eternity then why are they dieing? EDIT: by eternal life you mean here after? oh now i get it, thanks for the info biggrin
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:23 am
Voldemort point two tassan Only when those non-believers fights us first! eh, any words?
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:24 am
um, you did not say anything about my so long post :S
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:25 am
um, you did not say anything about my so long post :S
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