Advise Me, Friends

[ArmasTermin]

I don't know why I'm so bad at making decisions. And I'm not actually asking for a simple answer, I'm more asking for the points that are raised toward one side or the other when it comes to questions like this.

I'm thinking about an upcoming firearm purchase, at which time I'd like to get myself either a Marlin 336 C (or was it W? I forget every time) or a Remington 870 (or Mossberg 590).

I do already have two boxes of .30-30 ammo I'd bought, expecting the Marlin. But there's a lot of versatility within shotguns, and open places to shoot in Louisiana have limited range. I mean there's trees everywhere. And keep in mind that whichever I got, I'd most likely get the other one next.

I have in mind sticking a pistol grip/folding stock and vertical foregrip onto the 870, or a simple sling and ammo cuff on the 336. I toyed with the idea of putting a polymer stock on the Marlin, and probably would at least try it out, with them being fairly cheap. I could always take it off if I didn't like it.

(If there was a shrugging emoticon, it'd be here.)  

[Fresnel]

Personally, I'd go with the 870. I don't have a whole lot of love for the leverguns, but it's more a matter of taste, really. 870s can be used for hunting just about anything in the wooded areas you speak of, they're good for trap and skeet, which are pretty popular, and they'll out-class any other caliber of home defense gun on the market. I can almost guarantee ammo is cheaper, with skeet/bird loads running 20-25 cents a round (at least at my local Wal-Mart). They're also far more customizable than a lever-gun.

I have heard that if you plan to have an all-purpose shotgun, buy a standard 870 with a long barrel (24/26"), because 18" barrels are considerably cheaper. Then tacticool it out from there.  

[Man of the Demoneye]

Fresnel

Personally, I'd go with the 870. I don't have a whole lot of love for the leverguns, but it's more a matter of taste, really. 870s can be used for hunting just about anything in the wooded areas you speak of, they're good for trap and skeet, which are pretty popular, and they'll out-class any other caliber of home defense gun on the market. I can almost guarantee ammo is cheaper, with skeet/bird loads running 20-25 cents a round (at least at my local Wal-Mart). They're also far more customizable than a lever-gun.

I have heard that if you plan to have an all-purpose shotgun, buy a standard 870 with a long barrel (24/26"), because 18" barrels are considerably cheaper. Then tacticool it out from there.

I'd also second the 870, especailly with limited range to work with. I have had few, if any problems with mine. I would reccomend getting a 3" or 3 1/2" chamber in it in case you go duck hunting with it. It's considerably easier finding 3" or longer steel loads and you can still shoot 2 3/4" shells no problem.

Oh, and the availability of parts.  

[Shrantic]

Go with the 870. I absolutely LOVE mine, and it would be perfect if it wasn't a 20-gauge. As for my Marlin 336... It kicks like a b***h, (more so than my shotguns) lever-actions are painful to operate for extended periods of time, (matter of preference) and it's only minute-of-deer, something I don't like about my rifles.

However, even if all those problems were fixed, I'd still advise you to go with an 870.  

[Tier One OPERATOR]

590 SP. It has a bayonet lug. End of discussion  

[Shrantic]

Horrified Survivor

590 SP. It has a bayonet lug. End of discussion

Remington 870 has a steel receiver.

Discussion resumed.  

[Stoic Socialist]

Shrantic

Horrified Survivor

590 SP. It has a bayonet lug. End of discussion

Remington 870 has a steel receiver.

Discussion resumed.

870 FTW. IMHO, the only reason someone should get the Mossberg is if they're left handed because of the ambidextrous safety. That being said, left-handed 870s are fairly common... I'd go against the grain though, and not say get a "tactical" shotgun. There isn't any significant reasons why you should get a ghost-ring sight if all you're doing is throwing pellets or shooting slugs.

Just kidding. Get what you want, it's your money, and both of the shotguns will serve you well.

ALSO: .30-30s are as popular as they are for a reason.

Yeah, I doubt my post helps.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

The only lever-action I want is my Grandpa's Winchester, and I most likely would never fire it.

But yea, the shotgun's more versatile. As far as I know, the 870 and 590 are both great shotguns. The only thing is that if I got an 870, I want it to be for a lefty, and have a pistol grip and rail on it.  

[ArmasTermin]

Good points raised. Thank you all.

The Mossberg 590 Special Purpose was the one on my list. And I read a thing online last night about reasons the Mossberg 500 series beats the Remington 870 series. One thing mentioned was the safety on the 500s positioned along the top as a button pushed forward. And that would have been better if I hadn't wanted to put a pistol grip/top folding stock on,. So it ends up as a con. And steel receiver does beat aluminum. I also imagine 870s being easier to find.

The idea of purchasing one with the longer barrel and getting a shorter one separately seems like a good idea economically, but I don't see myself ever benefiting from the longer barrel. At least not in the near future. So I'd rather start off with the 18" and get a longer one down the road if I needed it.

How easy is the 870 for takedown, and how much needs to be pulled apart and moved around for standard cleaning?

What's with all this about Marlin's recoil? It's only a medium powered .30 caliber cartridge, in a medium-weight rifle. Don't young kids start deer hunting on similar platforms? Or are there just recoil pansies all over the place, detracting from it?  

[Stoic Socialist]

ArmasTermin

The idea of purchasing one with the longer barrel and getting a shorter one separately seems like a good idea economically, but I don't see myself ever benefiting from the longer barrel. At least not in the near future. So I'd rather start off with the 18" and get a longer one down the road if I needed it.
Model 870 Express w/ 18" Linkage

How easy is the 870 for takedown, and how much needs to be pulled apart and moved around for standard cleaning?
Easy as pie. There's a thumb-screw-knob-thing (which can also serve as a sling mounting point) at the end of the magazine tube. Unscrew it. Ta da!
That's just for the field strip, that's all I do when I clean an 870. I'm sure you could find a more thorough video on youtube.

What's with all this about Marlin's recoil? It's only a medium powered .30 caliber cartridge, in a medium-weight rifle. Don't young kids start deer hunting on similar platforms? Or are there just recoil pansies all over the place, detracting from it?
Not bad at all, mild even. Ever shot something in 7.62x39? More than the .223, less than a .308.

 

[owenmarco]

Shrantic

Horrified Survivor

590 SP. It has a bayonet lug. End of discussion

Remington 870 has a steel receiver.

Discussion resumed.

Whoopity ******** do-da.
The Mossberg has passed all the Military trails, and the 590 was purpose-built for a combat shotgun. It's got a stronger bolt-to-barrel lockup because the lug hooks into the barrel instead of relying on the receiver. The aluminum receiver is just as tough, AND it's lighter. The 590 also has more factory options for defense and combat. It also costs less than an equivalently configured 870.
And it has a bayonet lug.

It's controls are also more ergonomic. Tang safety. Slide release can be actuated with the trigger hand without changing your grip.
The elevator is anti-jam. It stays up instead of down all the time, meaning it doesn't encumber loading, doesn't catch fingers, doesn't catch gloves, and doesn't lock up if you happen to not seat a round in the magazine far enough and it pops back out (ON TOP OF THE ELEVATOR in the 870. Back in your hand on the 500/590)  

[owenmarco]

ArmasTermin

Good points raised. Thank you all.

The Mossberg 590 Special Purpose was the one on my list. And I read a thing online last night about reasons the Mossberg 500 series beats the Remington 870 series. One thing mentioned was the safety on the 500s positioned along the top as a button pushed forward. And that would have been better if I hadn't wanted to put a pistol grip/top folding stock on,. So it ends up as a con. And steel receiver does beat aluminum. I also imagine 870s being easier to find.

The idea of purchasing one with the longer barrel and getting a shorter one separately seems like a good idea economically, but I don't see myself ever benefiting from the longer barrel. At least not in the near future. So I'd rather start off with the 18" and get a longer one down the road if I needed it.

How easy is the 870 for takedown, and how much needs to be pulled apart and moved around for standard cleaning?

What's with all this about Marlin's recoil? It's only a medium powered .30 caliber cartridge, in a medium-weight rifle. Don't young kids start deer hunting on similar platforms? Or are there just recoil pansies all over the place, detracting from it?

Why do you want a folding stock? Unless you plan on joining a breacher team any time soon, it has no appreciable pros for the expected purpose of home defense. And pistol grips as well.
For the purpose of home defense, you should not be clearing your house. You should be bunkered down. There are small exceptions, such as gathering children. If you plan on clearing and using the folding stock or pistol grip for maneuverability, you'd be better off with a pistol as even more maneuverable and controllable.
No one has ever been able to quantify how the steel receiver is better. It's needlessly heavier. ********, the Ithaca M37 has been THE riot gun for ages, and it uses a fully alloy receiver to be a featherweight. Can anyone show that there is a rash of aluminum receiver'ed Mossbergs failing? The M4 and AR-15 are aluminum. No one bitches about them being aluminum.
You can find them for cheaper buying new.

You can buy a combo package at Walmart or any gunshop with a supplier who happens to order them from Mossberg (or Remington) of one or the other with an 18.5" barrel and a 26" (IIRC) barrel for a damn good deal.

Standard cleaning for a good shotgun should only need a bore swabbing (and brushing if it's bad enough) and spraying it out with CLP. But you have the option of further take down (which I take) for more detailed cleaning. Or if you use grease for lubrication, like I do.The 870's barrel comes off by removing the magazine cap, as does the Mossberg 500 or 590. You can pull out the insides of the 870 at that point. The Mossberg has a single pin holding in the trigger housing. Knock that out gently, and then you can pull out the insides. This is actually EASIER to got things back together properly, because you can visually line up the bolt, action bars, and bolt carrier properly. The 870 has two pins. The shell stop and interrupter are staked in the 870, making them harder to replace or repair or clean behind, but drops two parts from takedown because they shouldn't come out. If they start getting loose, they can cause problems. The Mossberg's are not staked in, and come out. People b***h about them being hard to get back in, but they only fit in one way, and they only fit in their own places. The 500's magazine tube is closed--it can not open at the end. The 590's can, like the 870's. Both have magazine extensions available, though the 590 squeezes in an extra round in the factory-made configurations.


Shrantic has one in .35REM, and keeps forgetting that the standard is .30-30WIN. Which isn't very bad at all.  

[ArmasTermin]

On folding stocks: It takes up less space when closed. Pistol grips are more solid when faced with recoil, rather than the gun recoiling essentially though your grip (at least in theory). It also looks cool. And...

On the idea of steel, steel is steel. It's harder. Harder might not equal better, but it seems like it does. That's probably the reason a lot of people would rate it higher. Same with plastic versus metal parts on guns.

For whatever reason, I thought the stock capacity on the 870 synthetic with 18" barrel was 5+1 rounds, not 4+1. I don't like that. Wait, I just read on another page about the same gun that it is 5+1. I'll have to read more into them. But as far as Remingtons, it's between the Express Synthetic and the Marine Magnum for me.

Is there any good reason for the elevator on 870s to be down all the time? If it can be made to keep up while loading without hiccups, why not just have everyone do that? Or is it a design flaw?

EDIT: I know MSRP is available via interwebs, but what's a standard gunshop price for the one's I've mentioned, if anyone knows? For 18" synthetic, Marine Magnum, Moss. 590 SP.  

[Fresnel]

ArmasTermin

On folding stocks: It takes up less space when closed. Pistol grips are more solid when faced with recoil, rather than the gun recoiling essentially though your grip (at least in theory). It also looks cool. And...

On the idea of steel, steel is steel. It's harder. Harder might not equal better, but it seems like it does. That's probably the reason a lot of people would rate it higher. Same with plastic versus metal parts on guns.

For whatever reason, I thought the stock capacity on the 870 synthetic with 18" barrel was 5+1 rounds, not 4+1. I don't like that. Wait, I just read on another page about the same gun that it is 5+1. I'll have to read more into them. But as far as Remingtons, it's between the Express Synthetic and the Marine Magnum for me.

Is there any good reason for the elevator on 870s to be down all the time? If it can be made to keep up while loading without hiccups, why not just have everyone do that? Or is it a design flaw?

EDIT: I know MSRP is available via interwebs, but what's a standard gunshop price for the one's I've mentioned, if anyone knows? For 18" synthetic, Marine Magnum, Moss. 590 SP.

Personally, I think it acts as a dust cover. There's a handful of things I don't like about the 500/590, but they're all opinion, really. First, I like Remington guns. I know 870s, and they work for me. Don't fix what ain't broke. Second, there's the elevator. I like the idea of having a dust cover over my magazine tube and receiver. I'd hate the idea of a rock getting stuck in the open slot there and jamming the s**t out of my gun. Uryu says it gives him problems with the tip biting his thumb, but I just naturally c**k out the knuckle on my thumb, which lifts the tip higher than it would need to be to bite me (and I hear that biting problem goes away with age, also). Third, there's the safety. The tang safety annoys the s**t out of me. It's always underfoot, so to speak, and I don't USE safeties. I'd be afraid of tripping it on accident. Also, it was designed assuming you're going to use a monte carlo stock. The moment you put a pistol grip on it, you can't flick it easily any more.

That said, the slide release on the 870 is kind of a b***h. It forces you to use it like the mag release on an SMLE. You have to grab the entire receiver in your hand to press it easily.

Quote:

The idea of purchasing one with the longer barrel and getting a shorter one separately seems like a good idea economically, but I don't see myself ever benefiting from the longer barrel. At least not in the near future. So I'd rather start off with the 18" and get a longer one down the road if I needed it.

I plan on doing exactly the same when I get mine, for the same reason, but if you DID want both, the longer barrels cost twice as much as the shorter barrels.  

[owenmarco]

Fresnel

ArmasTermin

On folding stocks: It takes up less space when closed. Pistol grips are more solid when faced with recoil, rather than the gun recoiling essentially though your grip (at least in theory). It also looks cool. And...

On the idea of steel, steel is steel. It's harder. Harder might not equal better, but it seems like it does. That's probably the reason a lot of people would rate it higher. Same with plastic versus metal parts on guns.

For whatever reason, I thought the stock capacity on the 870 synthetic with 18" barrel was 5+1 rounds, not 4+1. I don't like that. Wait, I just read on another page about the same gun that it is 5+1. I'll have to read more into them. But as far as Remingtons, it's between the Express Synthetic and the Marine Magnum for me.

Is there any good reason for the elevator on 870s to be down all the time? If it can be made to keep up while loading without hiccups, why not just have everyone do that? Or is it a design flaw?

EDIT: I know MSRP is available via interwebs, but what's a standard gunshop price for the one's I've mentioned, if anyone knows? For 18" synthetic, Marine Magnum, Moss. 590 SP.

Personally, I think it acts as a dust cover. There's a handful of things I don't like about the 500/590, but they're all opinion, really. First, I like Remington guns. I know 870s, and they work for me. Don't fix what ain't broke. Second, there's the elevator. I like the idea of having a dust cover over my magazine tube and receiver. I'd hate the idea of a rock getting stuck in the open slot there and jamming the s**t out of my gun. Uryu says it gives him problems with the tip biting his thumb, but I just naturally c**k out the knuckle on my thumb, which lifts the tip higher than it would need to be to bite me (and I hear that biting problem goes away with age, also). Third, there's the safety. The tang safety annoys the s**t out of me. It's always underfoot, so to speak, and I don't USE safeties. I'd be afraid of tripping it on accident. Also, it was designed assuming you're going to use a monte carlo stock. The moment you put a pistol grip on it, you can't flick it easily any more.

That said, the slide release on the 870 is kind of a b***h. It forces you to use it like the mag release on an SMLE. You have to grab the entire receiver in your hand to press it easily.

Quote:

The idea of purchasing one with the longer barrel and getting a shorter one separately seems like a good idea economically, but I don't see myself ever benefiting from the longer barrel. At least not in the near future. So I'd rather start off with the 18" and get a longer one down the road if I needed it.

I plan on doing exactly the same when I get mine, for the same reason, but if you DID want both, the longer barrels cost twice as much as the shorter barrels.

It wasn't designed as a dust cover in the slightest, a there are gaps. It WAS designed to smooth the pumping action because it only has to move the elevator while being pushed forward, and going back down is handled by spring pressure.
Nothing for rocks to get into. IF one goes in, it pops right back out because there's nothing to hold it in. It's like there's only a square recess in the bottom of the gun. The shells and follower seal the magazine, and the bolt seals everything else.
I'm not the only one with the problem. And it's a big problem for cold-weather hunters with big gloves, because it loves to snag gloves on the way out.
The tang safety is harder to trip than the crossbolt. It requires a hell of a lot more pressure and isn't right next to the trigger. It requires a deliberate movement of the thumb, and for a reason. The ball detent could be designed better for it, but the safety isn't moving without being purposefully moved. Oh, and steel or aluminum safeties are available! I need to get one. As well, Wilson (IIRC) makes a safety for the 500 or 590 for pistol grips. Just search Mossberg 500 on Midway, for aftermarket parts.


Does no one think about combination packages? They are priced pretty damn good for having both barrels.