fertility focused?

[12lovelikewinter21]

Fertility-focused:

Wicca is a fertility cult. It's not a Nature cult, or an 'earth-based' path. We don't worship Nature. We honour fertility! Fertility is one specific aspect of Nature; so while we may see and appreciate fertility reflected in the cycles of Nature.

And naturally, fertility means sex. It's very difficult to have one without the other. Wicca does contain sexual context, and activity, within its' rites. Many people assume that means actual intercourse, but there are many levels of sexual activity - and indeed, a non-Wiccan would probably miss some of the sexual nature that Wiccan ritual contains (even in an outer-court situation), because it can be incredibly subtle, or easily overlooked if you're lacking the contextual knowledge initiates have.

Wicca is not a good faith for anyone who has issues being openly sexual with other people. Wicca's sexual basis is also why Wicca does not initiate minors - and in fact refuses to even start teaching the basics to a person until they are 18. This is not open to interpretation or debate: it is a part of the laws of the Wica, which are known as the Ardanes.


i have copied this from one of the mane forums. it says that its fertility based. fertility meaning sex. but it also says its dose not always mean actual intercourse. it also says wicca dose not initiate minors or people under 18 because of this. but most people have sex before 18 anywas and it says most of the time its less than intercourse so i dont see the importance of that rule but im not arguing. but it also says they wont even start teaching you the basics till your of age. that bugs me a little cause its hard to learn about something if you cant have the info till your 4 years older. anyone have any thoughts on this?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Regardless of when people DO have sex, there are countries where it's illegal to have sex with someone under the age of 18. Your HP or HPS will definitely be over 18, probably over 40. There are Wiccan laws about respecting the law of the land and not calling legal attention to the coven; regardless of your country's age of consent, having a few under-18s in sexual rites with people twice their age or older is going to raise eyebrows with the authorities.

Initiation involves the kissing of genitals. You are naked throughout, and you are bound and whipped. While many of the elements of ritual aren't overtly sexual, you still have to be initiated to experience those other rituals.  

[oOGarrettOo]

The law about being 18 before you are initiated isn't just a Wica thing. The United States, and probably every country in which Wica is present, has laws about when someone is an adult and who can have sex with who until what age (even if people don't abide by this law).

For instance, one is not considered an adult or capable of making their own decisions until they are eighteen. Likewise, an adult (18 or older) that has sexual intercourse with a minor (under 1 cool is committing statutory rape, which is rape, which is illegal. This tends to also extend into sexual harassment of minors as well. Many people feel that even discussing sex with a minor can be considered sexual harassment.

Since Wica is a fertility cult, there are many sexual themes present in the teaching and rituals. Regardless of how these themes are presented, if minors were permitted into the coven, it would be an adult teaching the minor the rituals. This is not good.

Also, in the Ardanes, there is a law that Wica should not draw attention to itself by the law of the land it is present and should likewise follow national law. So since it is a law that adults and minors cannot have sexual intercourse, it is also a law in Wica and minors cannot be initiated.

So, no one under 18 is allowed to be initiated. End of story.

Anyone who needs to correct this feel free to. Obviously, I'm not privy to all this info.  

[12lovelikewinter21]

ok yall keep saying stuff about minors with over aged people. so IF an under aged person was to be initiated it would require a sort of sexual thing between them and a adult or over aged person?
and to the person talking about the kissing of genitals, being naked, bound and whipped, i thought that what happens in an initation was suposed to be secret. maybe im wrong but if im right then eather you shouldnt be saying that, or its wrong information.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

12lovelikewinter21

Fertility-focused:

Wicca is a fertility cult. It's not a Nature cult, or an 'earth-based' path. We don't worship Nature. We honour fertility! Fertility is one specific aspect of Nature; so while we may see and appreciate fertility reflected in the cycles of Nature.

And naturally, fertility means sex. It's very difficult to have one without the other. Wicca does contain sexual context, and activity, within its' rites. Many people assume that means actual intercourse, but there are many levels of sexual activity - and indeed, a non-Wiccan would probably miss some of the sexual nature that Wiccan ritual contains (even in an outer-court situation), because it can be incredibly subtle, or easily overlooked if you're lacking the contextual knowledge initiates have.

Wicca is not a good faith for anyone who has issues being openly sexual with other people. Wicca's sexual basis is also why Wicca does not initiate minors - and in fact refuses to even start teaching the basics to a person until they are 18. This is not open to interpretation or debate: it is a part of the laws of the Wica, which are known as the Ardanes.


i have copied this from one of the mane forums. it says that its fertility based. fertility meaning sex. but it also says its dose not always mean actual intercourse.

True, but sexual things extend beyond p***s-in-v****a action.

Quote:

it also says wicca dose not initiate minors or people under 18 because of this. but most people have sex before 18 anywas and it says most of the time its less than intercourse so i dont see the importance of that rule but im not arguing.

As people have already said and explained, it really doesn't matter what age kids start having sex.
Some kids also start drinking at the age of 12, so should we start allowing toddlers to sidle up to the bar?

Quote:

but it also says they wont even start teaching you the basics till your of age.

Mental maturity and stability are also a large part of seeking initiation.

Quote:

that bugs me a little cause its hard to learn about something if you cant have the info till your 4 years older. anyone have any thoughts on this?

4 years isn't really that long when you think about it.
And because I'm feeling a bit pendantic (and this is nothing personal against you; I actually think your post is interesting!)...

You don't just have the information given to you either. Wicca takes work. A lot of work. Even in the stages of Seeking you have to make efforts. And it takes patience and perseverance. If you aren't willing to wait 4 years to seriously start pursuing Wicca, why do you think that taking the time to train and initiate into the 1st degree will be any quicker or easier? And then you have the years in between 1st and 2nd degrees and then 2nd and 3rd degree. From what I understand, it is very rare that someone goes from 1st to 3rd degree in less than 8 to 10 years!  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

12lovelikewinter21

ok yall keep saying stuff about minors with over aged people. so IF an under aged person was to be initiated it would require a sort of sexual thing between them and a adult or over aged person?

Yep.
1st degree initiation doesn't involve full intercourse, but as mentioned above it does involve kissing of genitals.

Quote:

and to the person talking about the kissing of genitals, being naked, bound and whipped, i thought that what happens in an initation was suposed to be secret. maybe im wrong but if im right then eather you shouldnt be saying that, or its wrong information.

There are some aspects of ritual that are allowed to be told and there are some that aren't to be told. I mean, those things listed are not the whole of an initiation; it would be a one in a million chance (if not greater) to derive a Wiccan initiation from just those details. From what I understand, the Ordeal is the meat of the initiation and that certainly hasn't been revealed to non-initiates.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

12lovelikewinter21

ok yall keep saying stuff about minors with over aged people. so IF an under aged person was to be initiated it would require a sort of sexual thing between them and a adult or over aged person?

Initiation is given by a High Priest or Priestess. That means, yes, an adult. Working to be a High Priest/ess takes many years, so probably an older adult, particularly since it can take years just to find a coven.

Quote:

and to the person talking about the kissing of genitals, being naked, bound and whipped, i thought that what happens in an initation was suposed to be secret. maybe im wrong but if im right then eather you shouldnt be saying that, or its wrong information.

We know details. We don't know context, though. I'm not an initiate so I don't know how initiation works, but I know scourging is an element, being bound is an element, and I know you have to be naked. Wiccans have mentioned this, so it's been confirmed. The Farrars have written about it. But they haven't broken oath, so the secret elements haven't been shared. Kissing the genitals is part of the Fivefold kiss, which is pretty common knowledge at this point.  

[12lovelikewinter21]

ok thanks for clearing that up. i just wanted to make sure she wasnt breaking and rules. gotta look out for peoples. sweatdrop

anyways,
You don't just have the information given to you either. Wicca takes work. A lot of work. Even in the stages of Seeking you have to make efforts. And it takes patience and perseverance. If you aren't willing to wait 4 years to seriously start pursuing Wicca, why do you think that taking the time to train and initiate into the 1st degree will be any quicker or easier? And then you have the years in between 1st and 2nd degrees and then 2nd and 3rd degree. From what I understand, it is very rare that someone goes from 1st to 3rd degree in less than 8 to 10 years!

the time dont really bother me. its just i would like to know all that i can and what im getting myself into before i try to be initiated. as my uncle john always says, "knowlage is power."  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

12lovelikewinter21

ok thanks for clearing that up. i just wanted to make sure she wasnt breaking and rules. gotta look out for peoples. sweatdrop

No worries ^_^
There is a proper, initiated Wiccan in the guild and I am sure she will speak up if anything starts to tread too closely to oath-bound materials.

Quote:

anyways,

Violet Song jat Shariff

You don't just have the information given to you either. Wicca takes work. A lot of work. Even in the stages of Seeking you have to make efforts. And it takes patience and perseverance. If you aren't willing to wait 4 years to seriously start pursuing Wicca, why do you think that taking the time to train and initiate into the 1st degree will be any quicker or easier? And then you have the years in between 1st and 2nd degrees and then 2nd and 3rd degree. From what I understand, it is very rare that someone goes from 1st to 3rd degree in less than 8 to 10 years!

the time dont really bother me. its just i would like to know all that i can and what im getting myself into before i try to be initiated. as my uncle john always says, "knowlage is power."

I would definitely recommend the Amber & Jet mailing list then. There are people (ranging from elders to newly initiated 1st degrees) from most of the Wiccan traditions on there and it really is an awesome, educational group. It's about a moderate level group; one should have the basic knowledge of what Wicca is and what it is not and similar things.  

[12lovelikewinter21]

Violet Song jat Shariff

12lovelikewinter21

ok thanks for clearing that up. i just wanted to make sure she wasnt breaking and rules. gotta look out for peoples. sweatdrop

No worries ^_^
There is a proper, initiated Wiccan in the guild and I am sure she will speak up if anything starts to tread too closely to oath-bound materials.

Quote:

anyways,

Violet Song jat Shariff

You don't just have the information given to you either. Wicca takes work. A lot of work. Even in the stages of Seeking you have to make efforts. And it takes patience and perseverance. If you aren't willing to wait 4 years to seriously start pursuing Wicca, why do you think that taking the time to train and initiate into the 1st degree will be any quicker or easier? And then you have the years in between 1st and 2nd degrees and then 2nd and 3rd degree. From what I understand, it is very rare that someone goes from 1st to 3rd degree in less than 8 to 10 years!

the time dont really bother me. its just i would like to know all that i can and what im getting myself into before i try to be initiated. as my uncle john always says, "knowlage is power."

I would definitely recommend the Amber & Jet mailing list then. There are people (ranging from elders to newly initiated 1st degrees) from most of the Wiccan traditions on there and it really is an awesome, educational group. It's about a moderate level group; one should have the basic knowledge of what Wicca is and what it is not and similar things.

thanks. ill have to look it up later when i have more time to really get into it. and who is the initiated person in the guild. i would like to talk to this person. im always seeking information and i know you cant always trust what you get out of books or the internet. this person, being initiated, i trust would know what he or shes talking about.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

12lovelikewinter21

thanks. ill have to look it up later when i have more time to really get into it. and who is the initiated person in the guild. i would like to talk to this person. im always seeking information and i know you cant always trust what you get out of books or the internet. this person, being initiated, i trust would know what he or shes talking about.

She's tends to be a private person and I don't want to offend or otherwise make her uncomfortable by pointing her out by name here sweatdrop . Actually, I think if you poke around some of the other threads on the front page you might figure it out.  

[12lovelikewinter21]

Violet Song jat Shariff

12lovelikewinter21

thanks. ill have to look it up later when i have more time to really get into it. and who is the initiated person in the guild. i would like to talk to this person. im always seeking information and i know you cant always trust what you get out of books or the internet. this person, being initiated, i trust would know what he or shes talking about.

She's tends to be a private person and I don't want to offend or otherwise make her uncomfortable by pointing her out by name here sweatdrop . Actually, I think if you poke around some of the other threads on the front page you might figure it out.

well could you ask her permission to tell me then? if not ill spy around till i get it figured out.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

12lovelikewinter21

Violet Song jat Shariff

12lovelikewinter21

thanks. ill have to look it up later when i have more time to really get into it. and who is the initiated person in the guild. i would like to talk to this person. im always seeking information and i know you cant always trust what you get out of books or the internet. this person, being initiated, i trust would know what he or shes talking about.

She's tends to be a private person and I don't want to offend or otherwise make her uncomfortable by pointing her out by name here sweatdrop . Actually, I think if you poke around some of the other threads on the front page you might figure it out.

well could you ask her permission to tell me then? if not ill spy around till i get it figured out.

I don't think she's on at the moment, although I'm sure she'll pop on sometime tomorrow 3nodding .
Patience wink .  

[12lovelikewinter21]

Violet Song jat Shariff

12lovelikewinter21

Violet Song jat Shariff

12lovelikewinter21

thanks. ill have to look it up later when i have more time to really get into it. and who is the initiated person in the guild. i would like to talk to this person. im always seeking information and i know you cant always trust what you get out of books or the internet. this person, being initiated, i trust would know what he or shes talking about.

She's tends to be a private person and I don't want to offend or otherwise make her uncomfortable by pointing her out by name here sweatdrop . Actually, I think if you poke around some of the other threads on the front page you might figure it out.

well could you ask her permission to tell me then? if not ill spy around till i get it figured out.

She's not on at the moment, although I'm sure she'll pop on sometime tomorrow 3nodding .
Patience wink .

patience. my worst enemy. but ok. im gonna take a good guess and say shes one one of the head people. ok well im guess im done with this topic for now. but i hope other people ask questions too!!!  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

^_^