Open or Concealed Carry?

[ArmasTermin]

Kind of surprised this hasn't already come up. But which do you think is the more effective means of personal protection? There are people that mention that the element of surprise (bad guy not knowing you have a gun) is an offensive tactic. And a deterrent is just having it in the open, telling him basically, "******** off, go find somebody else." But at the same time, I think there's plenty of reasons not to carry open. Cops won't harass you, for one. And in settings like a bank robbery, anyone with a gun will either be shot on sight or have it taken. And as the statistics say, more cops die from their own guns in a criminal's hand than "assault weapons" and weapons retention is always a thoroughly taught subject among LEO circles, amiright?

It tends to put people off, too. And of course people should be getting used to open carry--it's legal and absolutely fine to use a gun to protect yourself. And if more people did it, more people would eventually become more comfortable with it. But I don't think I'd want to be one of the people to do it. I wouldn't want the attention and the looks. I would much prefer people just didn't know I had the thing at all.

Well I mean I don't yet, but come July 13, 2011, I'll be working on it.



(For the record, I'm talking about lawful open and concealed carry, what "lawful" meaning, depending on the area.)  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

I'd rather have concealed carry. Better to have it tucked away and not have people assume things about me.  

[Fresnel]

I'd go for CCW. Open carry is a failure if the guy sneaks up behind you and puts a gun to your head. At that point, CCW in a holdster is your best bet. Little s**t looks exactly like a wallet until it shoots you in the gut.

And that's not even mentioning the social upsides. If you walk down the street dressed for bear like a death-metal satanist, some Christian is going to take it upon himself to try and mend your heathen ways. In the same vein, walking down the street and open-carrying is likely to get you screamed at by some Brady-basher.  

[Man of the Demoneye]

I have to go with concealed. Mostly because the bank robbery scenario can also be applied to anywhere else. A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"  

[uryu ishida]

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen  

[Shrantic]

Open carry. It's more comfortable, you get a faster draw, and hell, you shouldn't be drawing your gun if a guy wants your wallet anyway.

Whether it acts as a deterrent or bait for criminals depends entirely on the criminal. Some would never ever try to mess with someone who they know is armed. Some would. We've got no way of telling which is more likely, because we aren't criminals and we don't think like them.

Also, once I turn 18, I can just holster the gun and walk outside. No CCW needed- it just needs to be registered. The cops around here are actually pretty good about not harassing people who open carry. I see maybe 1-3 people open carrying a week, depending on how often I go outside.  

[Fresnel]

uryu ishida

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen

See:

Man of the Demoneye

A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"

Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen

See:

Man of the Demoneye

A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"

Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.  

[Fresnel]

Requiem in Mortis

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen

See:

Man of the Demoneye

A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"

Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.  

[uryu ishida]

Fresnel

Requiem in Mortis

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen

See:

Man of the Demoneye

A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"

Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.  

[Fresnel]

uryu ishida

Fresnel

Requiem in Mortis

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Open Carry.

I have yet to have anyone provide even a SINGLE point of proof for the "you'll get shot first" point other than sheer paranoia. Suddenly, it foes from "The criminals will be less likely to attack ANYONE because they might have a gun!" to "They'll specifically target you because you have a gun!" Because we ALL know criminals aren't attacking the softest, most unaware target they can find; but instead the hardest, most aware, and most dangerous target they can.

So the paranoid ******** out there, put up, or shut the ******** up mrgreen

See:

Man of the Demoneye

A bad guy could look at you and say "you know, if I can sneak up on this guy, I can get money AND a gun"

Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.

I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.  

[uryu ishida]

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Fresnel

Requiem in Mortis

Fresnel

See:



Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.

I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.  

[Fresnel]

uryu ishida

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Fresnel

Requiem in Mortis

Fresnel

See:



Also, VERBAL accosting. Exposing a gun to the wrong person can get you bitched at and followed.

This. And as I said, people assume things when you open carry. A cop is more likely to follow you around.

And don't tell me they're not. My dad was constantly tailed by HBPD because he had a Rush sticker on his car. They automatically assumed "this guy listens to rock, he must be a stoner". If they'll do that, nothing is going to stop them from harassing a guy who open carries.

Plus, nothing can give you satisfaction quite like the look of surprise on the criminal's face when the gun holstered out of sight in your jacket is suddenly on their forehead.

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.

I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.

Sure it's actually a holster, but you remove a gun from its holster to fire it. The holdster stays on the gun at all times, so it's easier to think of it as a monogrip.

"NAA"? I feel like I should know the abbreviation, but it eludes me.

It also makes the thing look just like a wallet. Imagine that without the extended mag base and you've got a better idea. Having fired one, I gotta say it was surprisingly controllable. Moreso than the mini-1911 in .380 that I fired next. You just have to get used to it.  

[OberFeldwebel]

I'd do concealed.
Too many hurr durrs that don't know the state's law and would call the police and try and cause a panic or scene.
They would be in the wrong and could have charges filed on them, but still wouldn't want to be in that situation.

But I would want the option of carrying openly as well.  

[uryu ishida]

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Fresnel

uryu ishida

Fresnel

I think I've reconsidered, and my first CCW gun is probably going to be a Kel-Tec in a Holdster. I don't care how fast you are, the guy with a gun already out wins the draw. If you're sneaky, you can get the holdster out and aimed before he realizes it's a gun and not the wallet he just asked you for. I shot a Kel-Tec/Holdster combo once, and it's surprisingly easy to use.

I'm not saying you should never OC, but it has a time and a place. I'd OC in a place where I'm surrounded by pro-gunners like myself, like a convention, the range, a rally, or something like that. Or if I was planning to be alone. But I'd never wear one out into the world just because. Then again, I'm really introverted IRL, so whatever.

And the only reason cops get fidgety is because THEY ARE NOT USED TO IT. People didn't used to do it. Enough people didn't do it before, so they didn't properly train their patrol officers in the carry laws of their state and/or city ordinances. In many states and cities, open carry has ended with the police being properly trained in those laws, so that they do not accost law-abiding citizens. In fact, for every one "bad meeting" you read about, there are two good meetings you read about, and eight more that are never written because they don't warrant it

Those "wallet holsters" are AOWs.
Correction, it BARELY skates the "AOW" designation because it only covers the trigger guard. It also kind of defeats one of the many points of a proper holster--to prevent something from snagging and pulling the trigger.
Other designs, though, ARE AOWs if they happen to ALSO cover the slide instead of just the trigger guard.

I carry my wallet in my front-right pocket. I'd keep the holdster in my rear-right, with nothing else in that pocket. The point of the holdster is to make the pistol print through your pocket square, not gun-shaped. The gun isn't meant to be removed from it for firing. Consider it a very strange set of grips, not a holster.

It's still considered a holster, and it's still barely saved. They did use to make a "full wallet" for the NAA that was found an AOW.

According to the creator, it's to prevent it from rotating in your pocket, and to give better leverage (since none are particularly fun to shoot, nor comfortable) It is pretty much just the forward portion of a normal pocket holster.

Sure it's actually a holster, but you remove a gun from its holster to fire it. The holdster stays on the gun at all times, so it's easier to think of it as a monogrip.

"NAA"? I feel like I should know the abbreviation, but it eludes me.

It also makes the thing look just like a wallet. Imagine that without the extended mag base and you've got a better idea. Having fired one, I gotta say it was surprisingly controllable. Moreso than the mini-1911 in .380 that I fired next. You just have to get used to it.

It's a holster by law, I consider it a holster.

North American Arms. More specifically, what they are famous for, their micro-revolvers, usually in .22WMR, and more recently micro-pistols in new calibers like .32NAA.

I've seen the pictures a zillion times. It would still make it an AOW if they made it cover the slide.