drawing blood

[Ritual at Dusk]

Please read before posting!

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede, but it has come up in my mind for future rituals. Now before any of you say "you're evil" or anything like that please hear me out. I would NEVER do it for the purpose of evil or to harm another, only to help. Also, part of magic is accurate representation because we can't always do to our bodies what the ritual calls for which is the purpose of the representation. And since blood is our life force, it would stand to reason that it would help make the object a better representation. Also, we learn from our mistakes and that is what I plan to do because I'm sure I make several mistakes. A fundamental problem of mine is that every Wiccan/Pagan/Satanist that I know who claim to practice magic never do anything. It is simply a title for them, I myself do a lot of research and therefore like to put my ideas into motion before deciding whether they are a must or a bust. ANyway, just thought I would put my opinion out there so please tell me what your views on this a re in a nice way. Thank you!  

[ncsweet]

We had a somewhat related topic awhile back that you might want to browse though... Rituals for Drawing Blood.

Quote:

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede,

There is nothing in the Rede that prohibits us from drawing blood (or actually harming ourselves/others for that matter).  

[Esiris]

I don't have a problem with drawing blood for magic.
I think one of the reasons why people don't practice magic that much is because they might not need to. I practice, but not "often".  

[Ritual at Dusk]

ncsweet

We had a somewhat related topic awhile back that you might want to browse though... Rituals for Drawing Blood.

Quote:

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede,

There is nothing in the Rede that prohibits us from drawing blood (or actually harming ourselves/others for that matter).

it states "an ye harm none, do what ye will" meaning as long as you don't harm anybody then do what you please  

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

ncsweet

We had a somewhat related topic awhile back that you might want to browse though... Rituals for Drawing Blood.

Quote:

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede,

There is nothing in the Rede that prohibits us from drawing blood (or actually harming ourselves/others for that matter).

it states "an ye harm none, do what ye will" meaning as long as you don't harm anybody then do what you please

Yep. But that doesn't mean if it does harm you can't do it.

"Feel free to eat the apple." isn't the same as "Don't eat the orange." ya know?  

[Ritual at Dusk]

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

ncsweet

We had a somewhat related topic awhile back that you might want to browse though... Rituals for Drawing Blood.

Quote:

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede,

There is nothing in the Rede that prohibits us from drawing blood (or actually harming ourselves/others for that matter).

it states "an ye harm none, do what ye will" meaning as long as you don't harm anybody then do what you please

Yep. But that doesn't mean if it does harm you can't do it.

"Feel free to eat the apple." isn't the same as "Don't eat the orange." ya know?

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan because I suspect somebody will want to clarify me to death as they always feel they have to) *rolls eyes*  

[ncsweet]

Ritual at Dusk

ncsweet

We had a somewhat related topic awhile back that you might want to browse though... Rituals for Drawing Blood.

Quote:

Now normally I too would be against drawing blood, due to the Wiccan rede,

There is nothing in the Rede that prohibits us from drawing blood (or actually harming ourselves/others for that matter).

it states "an ye harm none, do what ye will" meaning as long as you don't harm anybody then do what you please

Show me where it says "don't harm anyone".

The Rede tells us that "harming none" is an acceptable thing to do, however nowhere in it, does it tell us what is unacceptable. It is up to each of us, to be responsible for our own actions, and if we have carefully considered the consequences of our actions, and are willing to accept those consequences...then we are free to do whatever it is we feel is necessary.

Quote:

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan)

Wiccan/Eclectic (or whatever else one may be), there are times when intentionally causing harm may be necessary. The only laws that apply to Trad Wicca are the Ardanes, and as far as I am aware - there is nothing within those that prohibits causing harm either.  

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan because I suspect somebody will want to clarify me to death as they always feel they have to) *rolls eyes*

I'm not Wiccan. I'm a seeker. Even if my seeking leads me to joining Wicca, my HPS expects me to think about my actions- not to follow the Rede with an empty head.

I intentionally harm things every day- but that isn't the point. Why are you able to tell anyone- seeker or otherwise, who is or isn't Wiccan based on how they view the Rede?

Ncsweet, there are other oaths that can be part of certain covens, lines or traditions that go along with the Ardanes.  

[Ritual at Dusk]

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan because I suspect somebody will want to clarify me to death as they always feel they have to) *rolls eyes*

I'm not Wiccan. I'm a seeker. Even if my seeking leads me to joining Wicca, my HPS expects me to think about my actions- not to follow the Rede with an empty head.

I intentionally harm things every day- but that isn't the point. Why are you able to tell anyone- seeker or otherwise, who is or isn't Wiccan based on how they view the Rede?

Ncsweet, there are other oaths that can be part of certain covens, lines or traditions that go along with the Ardanes.

I'm not telling people who is or isn't wiccan based on the rede, I'm saying that from absolutely every trustful source I've read it says wicca is about not harming people, despite what the rede says. If doing evil practices is also part of wicca then I want no further part of it.  

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

I'm not telling people who is or isn't wiccan based on the rede, I'm saying that from absolutely every trustful source I've read it says wicca is about not harming people, despite what the rede says. If doing evil practices is also part of wicca then I want no further part of it.

Let's take a step back.

I think we're working from two different pages. If we can come to understand where each other is coming from, we might sort this problem out.

When you say "absolutely every trustful source I've read", which sources are you talking about. Authors, titles, links? This will help me know where you got your information from.

Second, why do you believe harm and evil are the same thing?  

[mechanical kitsy]

Ritual at Dusk

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan because I suspect somebody will want to clarify me to death as they always feel they have to) *rolls eyes*

I'm not Wiccan. I'm a seeker. Even if my seeking leads me to joining Wicca, my HPS expects me to think about my actions- not to follow the Rede with an empty head.

I intentionally harm things every day- but that isn't the point. Why are you able to tell anyone- seeker or otherwise, who is or isn't Wiccan based on how they view the Rede?

Ncsweet, there are other oaths that can be part of certain covens, lines or traditions that go along with the Ardanes.

I'm not telling people who is or isn't wiccan based on the rede, I'm saying that from absolutely every trustful source I've read it says wicca is about not harming people, despite what the rede says. If doing evil practices is also part of wicca then I want no further part of it.

There's a common phrase used: "a witch that cannot hex cannot heal."
Harm none, do as ye will simply means if you do not harm, harm will not come back onto you. It's a karma thing.
There is no possible way to practice without harming someone, in someway. No, it's not evil. Evil is a concept in your head.  

[Esiris]

mechanical kitsy

Harm none, do as ye will simply means if you do not harm, harm will not come back onto you. It's a karma thing.

I don't really get that when I read the Rede.
Would you share your reasons?  

[Ritual at Dusk]

mechanical kitsy

Ritual at Dusk

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

well yes but if you are one who harms others intentionally then you aren't really wiccan(neo-wiccan because I suspect somebody will want to clarify me to death as they always feel they have to) *rolls eyes*

I'm not Wiccan. I'm a seeker. Even if my seeking leads me to joining Wicca, my HPS expects me to think about my actions- not to follow the Rede with an empty head.

I intentionally harm things every day- but that isn't the point. Why are you able to tell anyone- seeker or otherwise, who is or isn't Wiccan based on how they view the Rede?

Ncsweet, there are other oaths that can be part of certain covens, lines or traditions that go along with the Ardanes.

I'm not telling people who is or isn't wiccan based on the rede, I'm saying that from absolutely every trustful source I've read it says wicca is about not harming people, despite what the rede says. If doing evil practices is also part of wicca then I want no further part of it.

There's a common phrase used: "a witch that cannot hex cannot heal."
Harm none, do as ye will simply means if you do not harm, harm will not come back onto you. It's a karma thing.
There is no possible way to practice without harming someone, in someway. No, it's not evil. Evil is a concept in your head.

I'm not saying that there is no way to practice without harming anybody, but doing it intentionally isn't part of the wiccan practice  

[Ritual at Dusk]

Esiris

Ritual at Dusk

I'm not telling people who is or isn't wiccan based on the rede, I'm saying that from absolutely every trustful source I've read it says wicca is about not harming people, despite what the rede says. If doing evil practices is also part of wicca then I want no further part of it.

Let's take a step back.

I think we're working from two different pages. If we can come to understand where each other is coming from, we might sort this problem out.

When you say "absolutely every trustful source I've read", which sources are you talking about. Authors, titles, links? This will help me know where you got your information from.

Second, why do you believe harm and evil are the same thing?

Some of my sources are spellsandmagic.com, Christopher Penczak, and a lot of other articles that I have read that I cannot cite unfortunatley.
Also, harm isn't always evil, but evil is always harmful, otherwise it just isn't evil.  

[Esiris]

Ritual at Dusk

Some of my sources are spellsandmagic.com, Christopher Penczak, and a lot of other articles that I have read that I cannot cite unfortunatley.
Also, harm isn't always evil, but evil is always harmful, otherwise it just isn't evil.

I think I found one of the reasons we're not on the same page. Penczak isn't a Wiccan author, and spellsandmagic.com- while it is possible that Puzuzu is an initiate, I haven't seen anything to suggest he is. In fact, I think that his posting on Wicca is enough to make an educated guess that he isn't.

Of the Wiccans I know, I think more of them would be offended by his page's claims about "the Wiccan way" than not. Wicca didn't exist before Christianity. The author of the article claims things about other religions and gender equality, and stuff that makes me uncomfortable.

See, a lot of information that is published as being about Wicca is really only using the name.