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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:06 pm
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so,i'm a bit confused on the concept of patrons..alittle enlightenment here? redface
i think i know who my patron is,but i'm like,not completely sure. like,i have a huge obsession with sailor moon,and that lead to an obsession with the moon,which lead to my favorite goddess being selene. like,i have had a thing for selene for years,but i don't really know if all this was her way of like,choosing me,or something? or maybe it's just...i don't know! i feel really close to selene and everything,i'm not sure though if it means she is my patron,or if i even have one..?
help?
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:26 pm
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:21 pm
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:57 am
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I really dislike the idea that everyone -needs- or -must find- a patron. I like the idea that people -choose- their patron(s) even less.
Do you really need a patron deity?
I say No. Some people just aren't the right kind to take up that sort of service.
Unfortunetely, modern neo-paganism has a lot of emphasis on personal patron deities, the same as there is pressure for people to know their 'totem'. A lot of that crap comes from new-age thinking that's trickled down and into a lot of different paths: it's all about Self, it's all about someone's inner journey, it's all about ME. They expect their patrons will nurture, coddle, protect, shield, and uplift them, somehow. It's all talk of empowerment and sunshine and glitter and elfen farts.
But patron deities are not at all a 'ME' thing. It's about 'THEM'. You become Their child, Their servant, Their priesthood, and in some cases Their lover. They call you to Their service - something that can be difficult, frustrating, exhausting, and ultimately rewarding, if one understands fully what's being asked. They will let you fail. They might sometimes leave you in the dark. They will kick your a**. They will expect you to look after yourself. Life is pain - and anyone who'll tell you otherwise is selling you something.
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:06 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:01 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:12 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:38 am
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Distinct Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:42 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:58 pm
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:48 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:55 am
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:27 am
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Esiris Dianda Panda Never heared of patrons or anything before. I think the Romans were into it- kind of like Patron Saints and something got mistranslated along the way.
Well, certainly locations in the Greco-Roman world had patrons - city-states or towns or even just geography that was said to be under the patronage of particular deities.
Individual Romans, however, didn't really believe in the concept of having personal patron deities. The Romans in general believed that the Gods were unknowable - numen, faceless, sexless, present in locations and objects - and were often propiated as that. It's why you had deities for the household like the Lares and Penates.
Certain gods may have favoured or smiled upon certain people, and people had their favorites to worship - but that's not the same as having a patron, really. It gets confusing, in that the true Roman gods were all numina, but they also acquired the Greek gods and added them into the mix. It was a sign of culture and sophistication to have Hellenized deities, but at the same time they were sort of 'tacked-on'.
Trivia: numen is the origin of the modern english word numinous, which indicates the presence or power of a deity.
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:56 am
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Morgandria Well, certainly locations in the Greco-Roman world had patrons - city-states or towns or even just geography that was said to be under the patronage of particular deities. Individual Romans, however, didn't really believe in the concept of having personal patron deities. The Romans in general believed that the Gods were unknowable - numen, faceless, sexless, present in locations and objects - and were often propiated as that. It's why you had deities for the household like the Lares and Penates. Certain gods may have favoured or smiled upon certain people, and people had their favorites to worship - but that's not the same as having a patron, really. It gets confusing, in that the true Roman gods were all numina, but they also acquired the Greek gods and added them into the mix. It was a sign of culture and sophistication to have Hellenized deities, but at the same time they were sort of 'tacked-on'. Trivia: numen is the origin of the modern english word numinous, which indicates the presence or power of a deity. I thought some jobs had patrons too- and that might be where the misunderstanding came from. sweatdrop
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:11 pm
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