We Need Your Help! Angeni Domains

[Graceangel]

I dunno if it's noteworthy, but back during the summer I think. Presca used some of her NCS credits and commissioned Mobster Goose to make an angeni for her and I that i had from my quest thread. I was hoping he could get the domain of ducks as while he has some edits; he's pure angeni without any cosplay, crossbreed or mutant traits. ;3 I have a finished uncerted image of him. ^_^  

[Syaoran-Puu]

Felmino

Please don't ask Wyn to recert Angeni & alter domains, I have asked her not to do so until this process is complete. Odds are I will be fixing ALL the Angeni certs (which need domains fixed) once things are set right.

No that's fine.... I sort of assumed that it would either be like a mass fix it up at the end of this process or at least a delay in requesting. I just wanted to make sure I was doing what you wanted. smile

Also... if I can help you and this messy list at all please feel free to ask.
*nodnod*  

[Sabin Duvert]

For the record, just to explain about Malach since there seems to be some miscommunication;

Cuter is correct - she was ordered from Ameh in a bribe slot in July of 2008. At this point, there were no rules regarding mutant or cosplay angeni being barred from having domains. ((I at least never claimed Sirenz did her or that she was a RL slot - but miscommunication can spread)).

Sirenz had made several RL commission cosplay angeni with domains at about that point in time - and there was no segregation of the rules between what was allowed in RL slots vs what was allowed in a bribed slot on gaia. Pawed mutants were allowed in bribes then, too - and there were several of those popping up at that point in time via bribes.

Likewise, I believe when Fantome was made, he was considered a mutant - uniquely drawn breed features like the tail would have made him one by the definitions at the time, even if the fading out/shadows ON his wings didn't. ((the floating eyes certainly arguable, as together they certainly take up more space than a horse's head)).

I honestly don't know exactly when the cosplay or mutant rule came into being regarding angeni - but I believe it was some time about when all of us "newer" staff had come into the shop - such as me, Fel, Mind, and Kali and the rules were being rewritten and clarified.

Not trying to stir up arguments here, merely trying to clarify since it seems that Malach is being used as a point of contention.  

[Felmino]

CuterThanYou

Malach was bribed for in Ameh's bribe slots years back and I know this because I was the other person to obtain the other of her two available bribe slots with a remake of my mutant Plague. If she was formerly in Sirenz's RL custom slots, this is new news to me. Regardless, she was not created by Sirenz and I am fairly certain Ameh was paid for her work on the mare - even if she wasn't purchased, she was obtained by Gaia means so should be following Gaia rules, if you insist on saying RL customs rules are different than Gaia customs rules. If she was given rights on Gaia to be the One Special Exception to the Rules that Sirenz herself created, I would like to see Gaia proof of such, else this would be a double standard for one person to be allowed to do something while no one else could. Malach is a cosplay mutant Angeni with a theme that was purchased through Gaia means.

It's possible I was misinformed, I will freely admit with the thousands of ponies I've looked at over the last month that I don't recall the details on each one well - Malach could very well have been an Ameh bribe. RL custom rules are not different than Gaia rules, but most of the ponies with ... issues, are from RL slots where the enforcing of the rules was somewhat lax, at least it seems that way. If you want to contest Malach, it would be best to take it up with those who know what's actually going on and not me. 8<

Edit: Sabin would know better than I, since it's her horse.

CuterThanYou

Lil is fighting to have the same right with her cosplay Gatito. She paid for Gatito in her big bribe with King, and listed her with a theme in the custom form. It simply never made it onto the cert. I think we could both agree that, looking at former certs from the various artists, that each artist had their own way of making and labeling certs. Penalizing her for the way a colorist certed her pony is unfair.

I talked to King and she doesn't recall Gatito ever having an assigned/requested domain. Is there any corroborating evidence to her domain, such as a roleplay where she uses that power, or a custom form, PM, anything?

CuterThanYou

I realize you are still relatively new to the staff and I really do appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this thread and cause. Despite how my own posts may appear, I am honestly not attempting to make this job harder for you. Believe me, I do understand how tiring Soquili rules can be when it comes to interpretation. My irritation is not aimed at you, but towards the situation and the notion that people are being denied domains because of certing differences, age and unclear rules which were never officially posted.

People are not being denied domains simply because it's not on their tags, I am starting with those who are KNOWN domains, either on the list of "taken domains" or where it's marked on their tag. From there I am moving on to those which are unmarked but indicated as should have had a domain, and from there, we will hopefully be able to settle on definite rules once and for all. I am *not* simply discarding those with less provable domains, but I *am* starting with those that are marked, because it's easier that way and I can move from what's well known to those where I have to contact individual colorists.

CuterThanYou

Sarai was not a custom. Sarai was an Angeni created by Lil with her credits and she decided to then give me the mare as a surprise gift for my birthday. I received no opportunity to fill out a custom form and had I, I would have given my Angeni mare a domain. Are you really saying that because I did not nag Lil over the way she certed my present that Sarai can't have a domain and be grandfathered in as well? I'm not on a crusade to ensure that Moltres gets one, nor will I sit here and argue on the behalf of the other cosplays because aside from Lil's, I have no idea how those custom forms were filled out. There was never a stated official rule saying that mutant Angeni could not hold domains, so the only thing keeping Sarai from having a domain would be the fact Lil never officially certed her with one, which could be corrected in minutes. Sarai was created before any No Mutant Angeni Get Domains Rule - which still doesn't exist, as far as I can tell? So is it because of this ancient phantom rule that she can't have a domain, or is it because Lil never certed her with one?

As I said, if there was an issue with the domain choice, it can be fixed as the previous problematic domains in this thread have been fixed.

The only rule that I've been told is that domains go to Angeni and Angenicorns, and not other crossbreeds. I assumed that included mutants, since they are not typical of the breed. That does NOT mean that Sarai will be excluded from getting a domain, but I do have to verify with her colorist that she was indeed intended to have one. This takes time, I'm working on it.

CuterThanYou

As for Fantome, as you stated earlier in the thread that according to Zoo's certing job, Fantome was an Angeni with a domain. According to Zoo's certing job, he is also a mutant. You can't pick and choose her words from the cert to fit your preference, either take or deny everything. Though, if we're going to start getting technical, yes the hair and (possibly) wings can be excused, but the floating creatures around him would present a mutant trait that no other horse has. Butterflies, rabbits - excusable extras. Little winged demon eye things, however, are not common companions. They are mutant. As well, you did not address how Hyperion's flaming hoof was not a mutant trait either.

Colorists are not well known for accurately tagging their ponies, thus I tend to disregard the listed breed and look at what's actually on the horse, instead. I've seen regulars tagged as Wind, and that doesn't make them capable of flight. o.o; Small animals/creatures, regardless of being natural or fantastical, are not a mutant trait under the current custom rules. Fire (or other elements) on top of a horse are also not classed as mutant, though body parts *made* of elemental substances are. In Hyperion's case the fact that he was listed with a domain on both his tag and the Taken Domain List would make his mutant/not mutant status irrelevant anyways.

CuterThanYou

As this has strayed from the thread's original purpose, I would be happy to take this conversation to PMs, if need be, and I apologize for any additional stress I may have caused.

If you're more comfortable with PM's, that doesn't bother me, but you're certainly not going to be forced to take this out of the public view if you don't want to. I'm fine with either communication channel.
 

[endejester]

I'm not sure if I enter into this but Quin Ming was always intended to have a domain, we hadn't settled though on the exact word before my co-owner ended up leaving gaia. We were at the time simply excited to have landed a slot.  

[Graceangel]

Seaport is official now. He is the Angeni of Ducks. ^_^ So, feel free to list him there.  

[one over three]

Thank you Fel, Cuter & Lil for all your help and understanding with Dante. x3 Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions for new domains at first too. <3

Kait is away for the few days and online only sporadically so I'm not going to be able to plot with her very well to figure his new direction but we'll try to come up with a few just in case of further conflicts.  

[Ktns]

I asked a friend if they thought this was the sort of thing you were looking for, since I didn't want to be a bother and interrupt things :C They weren't sure, so they asked around and eventually one of their friends got ahold of someone who knew the answer and said this is what you're looking for.
Requiem's sin
Angeni of Eden's Bounty

 

[Pepzilla]

Lil did give me a theme but I didn't know that was domain. For the record, I didn't really.. actually.. acknowledge domains back then and I would definitely had not known it was theme. I'm still trying to find the bribe pm but its on an account I forgot the pass to I think |D;

Edit: Yea so I managed to get into my account to send bribe info too and Im afraid I dont have it. I still have Imp's half of the BB saved but that was because it was approached last =[ As for the theme/domain for Gatito Im 99.9% certain there was a "theme" part. I probably recognized it as the Zodiac part and put it with the breed! Im willing to argue though that Gatito's domain would essentially be ******** DOMAINS, kay.)

Edit2: HOWEVER, I have noticed that I DID cert themes onto soqs before and after the creation of Gatito....
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/soquilipets/King/Certed/Isablisscert.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/soquilipets/King/Certed/Vespasiancert.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/soquilipets/King/Certed/Winstoncert.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/soquilipets/King/Certed/Astrophelcert.jpg

So apparently I did acknowledge themes on certs but not as the name domain??? AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE PROBLEMS.  

[Felmino]

If you feel that Gatito was purchased with a listed theme, that's good enough for me King.

Etherial Requiem

Requiem's sin

I was under the impression that Requiem got a theme but not a domain because he was an OC... Regardless, you'll likely come in during the second phase of this project, so no harm in mentioning his domain now. WE WILL GET THIS SORTED OUT. Somehow. >w< OC Angeni are actually the whole point of overhauling the rules, besides the obvious benefits of avoiding future problems by having an accurate list.

endejester

I'm not sure if I enter into this but Quin Ming was always intended to have a domain, we hadn't settled though on the exact word before my co-owner ended up leaving gaia. We were at the time simply excited to have landed a slot.

Quin should also get sorted out in phase two, though you're welcome to PM me your desired domain now.

@ Cuter - you're not derailing, this is all relevant and on topic. It needs to be gone through, pain in the a** though it is, to bring order to the chaos.

Since I have no accurate log of when specific rules were enacted, my general sense would be to examine Angeni without documented domains under the modern rules rather than try and figure out what would have applied at their point of sale.

@ one over three - take your time, this isn't likely to be a fast process. I'd imagine it's going to take the better part of January before everything is squared away.  

[mindsend]

Uh.. *hand raise* I know for a fact that Requiem's 'theme' on there was on the list of taken themes (Which has now been recently defined as domain/theme separations when there wasn't really one before 2010 that anyone really knew of for sure) Back in 2009 when I was making sure my own angeni's theme/domain wasn't stepping on any toes/taken outright..

And the only reason I'm pretty dang sure about it about it is because I went "...Wtf is Eden's Bounty supposed to be? o_O"

I honestly don't know why it isn't even on the list now to begin with. All I know is that most certs back then had them listed as themes as well.

This is also likely the one I got asked about by someone, and I had asked you to confirm that, even if they were an OC, if they had "Theme" on their cert they should post it here because it shows they had the domain, even though it was usually called theme back then (and still tends to be out of old habits and examples most colorists look at for them).

Remember? I asked about it since someone I knew asked about it for someone who had asked about it for a friend yesterday since I wasn't sure but I knew exactly how to get the information. I honestly don't see how this theme is any different then any of the other themes posted, or even the ones that were on the list but didn't have it on the cert.

I told the person who had asked, "yeah if your friend has a theme on their Angeni's cert and its not in the list, send it on in cause Fel says she's recording those onto the list, and that IS what she's looking for." because thats what you told me. @_@ Whether or not they're an oc, they have the evidence of having had it back then.

At the very least, it should be on a 'waiting list' of sorts, but I honestly remember that domain being on a list at some point around the May-July period of 2009 in the "Master Cosplay, Theme & Reserved Cosplays" list, if just because of the reaction I had to seeing it and trying to figure out what exactly it meant and how it'd be used as a theme/domain.  

[Ktns]

sweatdrop Yeah and I asked because there were people that got accepted to the list that didnt have *anything* on their certs at all, after Req came around. Also, because I already cleared all of this with Kalis, Niss and Wyntre previously. Well that and my other two 'OC' chars have domains, and other people who have OC's and Cosplays have domains.