The Fire Opal Pub - Sacred Source's Ranting Place

[Jameta]

~Underconstruction~

To keep the Caravan smoothly rolling, I thought I'd set-up shop a place for the members to just let it all out. Got something on your chest? Grab a stein and yell it out!  

[Jameta]

As creator, I'll open things up...

Does anyone other than me feel like that their history discredits them? And not because of a lack there of; oh, no, I'm talking about having/knwoing a ton of s**t about yourself. For me:

- I'm a descendant of Mary Queen of Scots, a Catholic martyr and one of the first major indiviudals to practice religious tolerance
- Likewise, I'm a descendant of King James, the guy who revised the Bible
- I have Jewish heritage on my mother's side; some great-great grandfather converted to Catholocism so he could stay in the country and marry a Catholic girl
- My great-grandmother was a witch, and her urn is in my closet
- My father's name, although semi common, denotes Scottish/Irish royalty

I'm so afraid of telling people this and having them call me a fluff bunny... esepcially because I hate rabbits.
And another thing, I'm sick of fundamentalists, and I mean all kinds- if we were all meant to beleive the same thign, we would. And hey, it's human nature for someone to pick up an old idea and change it so it's suits us. that's what Gerald Gardner did, and I'm sure many other's who've created massive religions. And frankly, I don't see any copyright laws. Yes, you can go to a point where your idea is totally stupid, but don't blame the people who make sense and are out to promote their own spiritual growth.

I REFUSE TO CONFORM!!!

I finish with my favorite swear-line: God ******** damnit.  

[x__CrimsonRegret]

I was selling my Nitemare scarf.. and someone offers 195k. Exactly how much I needed for an Angelic Scarf.

So I send the trade, and she send it back titled "I'll give you the rest later" and it had 350 gold in it.

Needless to say I went off on her b***h a** untill I got a warning..

domokun domokun domokun domokun domokun domokun
 

[Keistera]

You see, I was going to do a speech to debunk the whole "9 million witches died in the burning times, never again the burning times!" thing, but... IT IS EVERYWHERE! If it isn't 9 million, it's four million, or four hundred thousand. If it's not the numbers, it's people trying to say that the people that died were all really Wiccans, and that Wicca is an "olde religion that hast been hiding since *insert ridiculous time frame here*". WHERE do people get this information?!

My highschool HISTORY TEACHER told us that men were to blame, it was an attempt to kill off women, they were threatened by the herbalists... four hundred thousand died... however, it's been proven that some of the ... crazier ... trials were faked. Strange history.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm shallow to think that Wicca really is only 50 years old (maybe a little older, but no more than 60 or 70), with bits borrowed from OTO, Golden Dawn, Crowley, and -perhaps- some of the older Pagan religions, but that doesn't mean it's "olde". Perhaps it's silly of me to think that the 50,000 - 100, 000 that were executed in the witch trials of the middle ages or renaissance weren't just women, some were men, and none of them were Wiccan or a pagan religion of any sort -- they were innocent Christians. Perhaps the townsfolk got jealous of one of their own, and blamed him or her for their troubles, knowing of the paranoia that was circulating?

This is why I've gone back to researching Salem for my speech. At least there's some worthwhile info in my College library. I hope.

(... Thanks for putting this area up. Sometimes, I can use a place other than livejournal to rant -- dot_pagan_snark or nonflufflypagans.

Jameta: I can't blame you for being a little wary, but your history makes sense. What sort of witch was your great-grandmother, if I may ask? You can PM me if you wish, I just find the topic interesting.)  

[Atma311]

Keistera

You see, I was going to do a speech to debunk the whole "9 million witches died in the burning times, never again the burning times!" thing, but... IT IS EVERYWHERE! If it isn't 9 million, it's four million, or four hundred thousand. If it's not the numbers, it's people trying to say that the people that died were all really Wiccans, and that Wicca is an "olde religion that hast been hiding since *insert ridiculous time frame here*". WHERE do people get this information?!

My highschool HISTORY TEACHER told us that men were to blame, it was an attempt to kill off women, they were threatened by the herbalists... four hundred thousand died... however, it's been proven that some of the ... crazier ... trials were faked. Strange history.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm shallow to think that Wicca really is only 50 years old (maybe a little older, but no more than 60 or 70), with bits borrowed from OTO, Golden Dawn, Crowley, and -perhaps- some of the older Pagan religions, but that doesn't mean it's "olde". Perhaps it's silly of me to think that the 50,000 - 100, 000 that were executed in the witch trials of the middle ages or renaissance weren't just women, some were men, and none of them were Wiccan or a pagan religion of any sort -- they were innocent Christians. Perhaps the townsfolk got jealous of one of their own, and blamed him or her for their troubles, knowing of the paranoia that was circulating?

This is why I've gone back to researching Salem for my speech. At least there's some worthwhile info in my College library. I hope.

(... Thanks for putting this area up. Sometimes, I can use a place other than livejournal to rant -- dot_pagan_snark or nonflufflypagans.

Jameta: I can't blame you for being a little wary, but your history makes sense. What sort of witch was your great-grandmother, if I may ask? You can PM me if you wish, I just find the topic interesting.)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm is a good source for info. on this topic. I trust this site, since this is the first site I got ANY information on Wicca on, and from what I've seen, it's fairly accurate and has resources and the likes to back it up.

Btw, Jameta, I don't see how your ancestors would make people think critically of you and who you are. If they care that much about who you come from and lose sight of you as an individual, then who cares about what the heck they think? Your true friends will know you're not a "fluff bunny" (which, btw, I've decided that no one really knows what that term means) and anyone making snap judgements about you based on your heretage isn't any better than a fundamentalist (of any religion).  

[Jameta]

Atma311

Keistera

Jameta: I can't blame you for being a little wary, but your history makes sense. What sort of witch was your great-grandmother, if I may ask? You can PM me if you wish, I just find the topic interesting.)

Btw, Jameta, I don't see how your ancestors would make people think critically of you and who you are. If they care that much about who you come from and lose sight of you as an individual, then who cares about what the heck they think? Your true friends will know you're not a "fluff bunny" (which, btw, I've decided that no one really knows what that term means) and anyone making snap judgements about you based on your heretage isn't any better than a fundamentalist (of any religion).

No problem about setting the place up- Gave me a place to put up the skeleton from TLP. whee

But come on, I sound like a fluff bunny- I have all this background and titles to claim, yet I'm still trying to learn. Many people would find it unbelievable, and I don't blame them.

As for what type of witch my great-grandmother was, I'm not sure, but there was a high priestess at the funeral. My aunt started to contact her, but she hasn't gotten back to me... figures with how crazy her and my other relatives' lives get. xp  

[Jameta]

Alright, I don't care who sees this... I'll just try to sound 'calm'.

I was irritated with having to go to mass. I was irritated with going to Youth Group.

Know why? I don't gain anything that way. I loathe people. Notice I did not say individuals- I said people. Individuals mean there are distinct personages that I may work in a group with. People means a hording mass of sheep-like beings.

And to be an individual, I've got to know you.

So what makes this coven thing so 'wonderful' and 'mysterous'? Honestly, faith and religion are in the head, and yeah, it's helpful to have them written down and practiced in a certain fashion, but when it gets goddam strict, it's time to go electic.

And last time I checked, Gardner did not stamp a ******** copyright mark on the matter of Wicca and its conepts. He even said he got it from someone else. Therefore, others may take an idea and mold it, be it slightly or much, and have their own, valid faiths.

By valid, I mean they make sense and may have background.

Back to the covens...

I hate strangers.

And I'm not talking about people online; not seeing and not being seeing is helpful to me.

Being in smack-dad sight makes me feel like a fish outta' water.

So how helpful would a coven be, other than making me feel like a freak?

And I don't even believe what most of these people think! That's why I, and others, are electic and solitary. It's so we stay out of you, coven-fundies, ******** hair. We'll do our thing, you'll do yours, and we won't pay attention to either's fluff bunnies.

Just stop targetting everyone. I may have to go by a very long title to keep people happy, but I'm sticking to it. I follow my heart and the research it leads me into, not some narrow-minded hallway.

And hey, maybe one day, I'll be in a 'coven'. However, it won't be of just one type of person. Like the world, it will have people of different background and perspectives, yet we'll be able to see past this s**t and do something together. Till then, I'm going to continue to get pissed-off at people who say, "You can do this, but you can't do that."

My God, Lord and Lady, get a ******** pair of glasses and see how Hitler like you are.  

[blukattt]

I can only think of one thing: Silver Ravenwolf

Damn anti-christian, gives real wiccans a bad name; no wonder so many people out there keep thinking wiccans worship the devil. stressed  

[Starlock]

Jameta's ramblings reminded me of something that annoys me. The fluffy-bashing and knee-jerk reactions that people get if they even smell a whiff of something that might be fluffy. It's extremely annoying, extremely presumptuous, and just makes wars and conflicts between perfectly legit practitioners of the Craft. It sometimes gets to the point that if person A disagres with person B's form of the Craft, than person's B's form is obviously fluffy, even if they actually CAN trace linage.

Then there are those who spout their view on the Craft as the gospel, and as absolute truth. Man, that really miffs me. Especially that thread in M&R right now. You know... that Wicca FAQ. If it didn't present iself as objective fact it wouldn't bother me, but it does. And it's not objective fact in a few points. I get afraid of kids reading that and believing it as fact instead of opinion, because we all know kids tend to do that.

Now I'll concede that I'm quite new to the Craft myself, but I'm also an academic who habitually does butloads of research. I'm starting to dive into the primary source material that inspired people like Crowley and Gardner (like Frazer's Golden Bough and Graves' The White Goddess). Even though I don't know everything, I'm not about to believe somone with certainty who is barely in high school and probably not even in a Coven (most covens don't initiate until 18 years of age, right?)

You know what I wish existed? A brand spankin' new academic and scholarly study on Neopagan faiths, especially Wicca. Adler's book is getting quite out of date, and unlike Wiccan commentators, scholars are more objective in their assesments. Is there a more recent academic analysis of Neopaganism?  

[x__CrimsonRegret]

blukattt

I can only think of one thing: Silver Ravenwolf

Damn anti-christian, gives real wiccans a bad name; no wonder so many people out there keep thinking wiccans worship the devil. stressed

Indeed.  

[Atma311]

I think I've got like 3 different rants here, so bear with me.

#1: About Fluff-bunnies and fluffiness. This is getting on my nerves... badly. Calling someone a "fluff bunny" has now become a regular insult among Wiccans. The sad thing is NO ONE AGREES TO WHAT IT MEANS! First, I heard that it was someone who called the quarters in a loving fashion, without much of any person power/intent. Then, I heard that it was a term that described people who didn't know what they were doing in the slightest, meaning people who are basically unknowledged about the craft in just about every way. Now, people are saying that if you have heritage of some important religious people, you are a "fluff bunny". THIS IS GETTING WAY OUT OF HAND!!!!

#2: About Covens/Churches and people. I agree that if the coven or church you attend has people who you don't think you can get along with or just don't think you'll like, then don't go there. However, if you do happen to stumble into a coven or church where the people are nice and you could just listen to their stories for hours and attend meetings with them, stick with them! I'm happy I found that kind of coven on the first try (and hearing about how wine and jello are a bad combination is still funny). I understand the whole "I hate people!" attitude. I'm in this dorm room every chance I get because the "friends" I have here SUCK (don't ask stare ). However, when I'm with the friends in my coven, I feel... like I have a second family. When you find THAT group of people, stick with them. It doesn't matter if it's a church or coven. You just KNOW, so don't worry too much about it. However, don't wait for it to fall into your lap. You have to look and look before you find it. IMHO, smaller is better, but that's just me.

#3: About Silver RavenWolf (YOU HEARD ME!). Blu, you just brought it up, but it isn't directed at you. I'm tired of hearing about how she is an evil, Christian-hating, money-grubbing women from people WHO HAVEN'T READ HER BOOKS! I'll admit that I've only read one myself, and it wasn't Christian-bashing or anything that wasn't helpful in any way. I'll admit she COULD have written other books that ARE mean-spirited towards our Christian friends, but if you haven't read the books that are, you shouldn't say anything about the woman. I've met so many people that have bad-mouth the woman, and when I asked what book they got that from, they said they never actually read any of her books! Please! Stop talking other people's word as fact unless you do your own research into it. Pagans seem to be doing that more and more, I realize. I'm beginning to think we're a bit too trusting sometimes...

[/rant] Ahh!!! I feel better! biggrin

Sorry for the long post sweatdrop  

[Keistera]

I tried to read an SRW book, but just couldn't bring myself to get into it -- and this was before I heard all the ranting.

I do want to see more "scholarly" information in the Neopagan world. I'm tired of having to sort through "Love spells for the teenage witch" and "making your cup size bigger through witchcraft" (Sorry, Neurotically Yours flashbacks) books to find something decent. I do have Golden Bough.. just haven't gotten to it yet.

I can't explain my view of a "fluff bunny", but I know it's not a term to be used loosely, or on the impressionable newbie. The ignorant, maybe. However, in regard to lineage: If you can present proof or you don't constantly brag about it, fine. With Jameta, when I read of her lineage, I was interested. I didn't think, "Oh, fluffy." I thought, Hey, that's cool. Such a varied history!

Covens aren't for everyone. Some of us don't like the social aspect, some of us don't feel comfortable with group ritual. Some even prefer to (*gasp!*) commune with and show appreciation to the Gods on our own, in our own personal way. For some, it's a very personal thing, and nobody has the right to judge that. I personally have no use for a coven, except as a learning tool. The only Pagan friend that I have IRL is a Celtic Recon, and I'm a studying/learning Wiccan. (Pseudo-Wiccan? Neo-Wiccan?)

Can anyone rant for me about whether or not www.whywiccanssuck.com makes sense? (It's not bashing the religion itself, from the looks of it... and I personally don't find any of the material that I've read to be offensive).

(Holy crap, a Gaian-Pagan group that I can take seriously! EEEP!)  

[Jameta]

Keistera

Can anyone rant for me about whether or not www.whywiccanssuck.com makes sense? (It's not bashing the religion itself, from the looks of it... and I personally don't find any of the material that I've read to be offensive).

(Holy crap, a Gaian-Pagan group that I can take seriously! EEEP!)

The Ranting Witches have an essay on the sight about why it isn't as good as some might think... and they have evidence.

And Starlock, I completely agree with you. With things skyrocketing and advancing today, there needs to be a reevaluation. The only related updates I've heard are of a religious census in England, where a good portion of the citizens claimed to be Pagan or sub-demoniation... can't remmber what the percentage of Jedi was. sweatdrop (Mini Rant: Although it has good intentions, Jedism is basically Taoism with special effects... not that I really care- you believe what suits you best).

Rakei, thanks for making that point, and I did have that a little bit in mind when thinking about a few of my friends. And there is a Catholic Church in CA I wouldn't mind going to... got an open-minded priest from Texas. whee

As to SRW... I've only heard things, so I won't say anything, but I have read Fiona Horne, and man oh man, if you need a picture of a fluffy bunny, she is it. I believe the most appropriate definition of a fluff bunny is:
- ignorant of history, sects, purpose, etc in a good deal of combinations.
- refuses to learn more from others that do not believe the same things they do
- views his/her faith as one sided (either full of light or full of darkness)
- may see opposing criticism as oppression

Fiona Horne... good god... She says she's Wiccan, but she also claims to be Aetheist, focuses on spells, and makes just as many products SRW. She got into the business because a fortune teller said she would. gonk

FYI, I've read a book of hers and read interviews... she scares me, Mommy Fortuna! crying

And thanks again, Rakei and Keistera, for not making me feel bad about my neurotic history. blaugh  

[Keistera]

No problem. smile And thank you for providing that site. It seems like a good one, and it's tough finding those. An argument with evidence in the Wiccan community is a gem indeed! (No offense to anyone, but... razz )

I'm out of rants for now... except... I can't believe the pseudo-Pagan communities here! Thinking you're a demon that was kicked out of heaven in a past life, and trying to force people to believe that there is a heaven is NOT Pagan thinking, IMHO. Then again, what do I know? *sigh*  

[Aloyseus_Wolf]

Yeah... somebody definatly has their definitions mixed up... especially since Paganism has nothing to do with the christian concept of Demons vs. Heaven. Ah well... some people... need to tell themselves these things so they don't have to face the fact that they are normal boring and in this case sad human beings.