Buddhism, Paganism and Wicca

[Erise Crewe]

Are there any wiccans/pagans who are also buddhist? According to the What is Paganism? thread Buddhism is a pagan religion by definition. But historically, the original form of Buddhism was not intended to worship buddha or GuanYin, an eastern asian Bodhisattva. My knowledge on the subject is a bit limited, but to my understanding Theravada Buddhism is more of a lifestyle/ideology than a religion. So with this train of thought, one would think that it would be possible for a Wiccan to also follow the lifestyle/ideology of Buddhism without being 'unfaithful' to their religion (for the lack of a better word.)

The reason why I have begun pondering this question is because to my knowledge there are 3 religions that believe in reincarnation- Paganism (and by extension Wicca even though Paganism is such a broad term sweatdrop ), Buddhism, and Mormonism. I had begun wondering about the similarities and differences between Buddhism and other forms of paganism.

And, I'm very inexperienced with pantheons. I know there are people who have patron deities, and I was wondering if 'gods' that were not meant to be gods would appear to people. For example, Buddha, who when alive did not think of himself as a deity and to my understanding had no desire to be worshiped. Or other philosophers, for example LaoZi is sometimes worshiped by Taoists even though he's was only a philosopher.

Just the random ramblings of a newbie sweatdrop Anyone have any thoughts on the subject of the origin of religions, and interconnection between religions?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

The fact that Buddhism (in some instances anyway) does not involve worship doesn't disqualify it from being Pagan. It's a religion, it doesn't involve worshipping YHWH, and it doesn't otherwise derive from the religion of Abraham - so it's a Pagan religion. But it's recognised that many Buddhists reject this term so though it's technically true by the widest definition of the term, it's often impolite to refer to Buddhists as Pagans.

As for it being a religion, some people don't consider it a religion, but many others do. Given how many different variations there are on Buddhism, some may qualify and others may not.

It's important to remember that Paganism isn't a religion. So it's not "3 religions that believe in reincarnation", it's dozens.

The issue with Buddhism vs Wicca is that Buddhists seek to escape the cycle of reincarnation, while Wicca is more about celebrating it. I'm sure there are Pagan religions that would work well in tandem with Buddhism, though.  

[Esiris]

There are some pretty weird sects of Buddhism out there, so it might be possible to be both. Wiccans can follow any other religion that doesn't break their oaths, but some would take more mental gymnastics than others I think. cat_sweatdrop  

[Morgandria]

Erise Crewe

So with this train of thought, one would think that it would be possible for a Wiccan to also follow the lifestyle/ideology of Buddhism without being 'unfaithful' to their religion (for the lack of a better word.)

As Esiris said, Wiccans are free to practice other religions as well as Wicca, so long as they maintain their oaths and aren't adding or taking away from Wicca. Think of it as not 'crossing the streams' - you can practice other religious paths, so long as they run parallel to Wicca. Most of the time if there's conflict between someone practicing Wicca and something else, it's on the part of the something else.

Erise Crewe

I had begun wondering about the similarities and differences between Buddhism and other forms of paganism.

Buddhism takes on so many different forms. I really don't know enough to comment about its' practices. What I can say, though, is what San pointed out is the real conflict. Buddhists are looking to escape saṃsāra, the endless wheel of reincarnation, by attaining moksha, or nirvana - literally freedom from suffering, or what's sometimes called 'enlightenment'. Wiccans want the opposite of this - Wiccans wish to reincarnate again, and specifically as Wiccans. Part of Wicca entails forming spiritual connections such that initiates will be able to recognize each other in future lives, and continue serving the Lord and Lady as their priesthood.

Erise Crewe

And, I'm very inexperienced with pantheons. I know there are people who have patron deities, and I was wondering if 'gods' that were not meant to be gods would appear to people. For example, Buddha, who when alive did not think of himself as a deity and to my understanding had no desire to be worshiped. Or other philosophers, for example LaoZi is sometimes worshiped by Taoists even though he's was only a philosopher.

What you've got in many Eastern religions is a melding of thousands of years of evolving theology based on a changing society. You also have a great deal of folk traditions getting blended into the different philosophies over time. As a result Hinduism has several hundred sects and deity-forms, which are specific to different states, regions, or even village to village. Buddhism has done the same - especially in Tibet, which is probably the most unique variant (in my mind).

And as was said, Eastern religions in general are not pleased at being called pagan. It's ...complicated. They qualify technically, as they are not Judeo-Christian in origin, but they really don't consider themselves the same sort of religion as what the West calls pagan. It's said that Vedic religions, in general, consider all people to be 'Hindu' - whether or not they practice. Vedic religions are some of the oldest known religious practices and beliefs in the world - it's possible that they are part of the basic foundation of the world's ancient religions as civilization spread across Eurasia.  

[Erise Crewe]

Esiris

There are some pretty weird sects of Buddhism out there, so it might be possible to be both.

xd One man's weird is another man's normal. ninja Thinking of Scientology at the moment, but I try not to judge. sweatdrop Unfortunately there are going to be people who don't believe in witchcraft who think we're crazy too lol But I sort of think going way out of your way to prevent from killing insects is a little much. (Hear tales of monks doing this) I would go crazy if I couldn't kill the mosquitos biting me in summer scream *grumbles something about being in the south and the humidity and mosquitoes in the summer*

Morgandria

Wiccans want the opposite of this - Wiccans wish to reincarnate again, and specifically as Wiccans. Part of Wicca entails forming spiritual connections such that initiates will be able to recognize each other in future lives, and continue serving the Lord and Lady as their priesthood.

That's incredible imo. I've heard stories of witches passing knowledge to themselves through astral projection and speaking to their past self. Have you ever had any similar experience Morgandria, or know of any stories about this kind of passage of knowledge?

Morgandria

It's said that Vedic religions, in general, consider all people to be 'Hindu' - whether or not they practice. Vedic religions are some of the oldest known religious practices and beliefs in the world - it's possible that they are part of the basic foundation of the world's ancient religions as civilization spread across Eurasia.

eek I've never heard of the term vedic, but thanks for sharing. I have a sort of reverence for all the ancient religions. The mythology is fantastical and fun to read, and there's sort of a mystery behind anything ancient.  

[Morgandria]

Erise Crewe

That's incredible imo. I've heard stories of witches passing knowledge to themselves through astral projection and speaking to their past self. Have you ever had any similar experience Morgandria, or know of any stories about this kind of passage of knowledge?

Personally, no. I myself have no experience at all regarding past lives, and I personally neither believe or disbelieve in reincarnation. I have taken my oaths as they are written, and uphold them as sworn, if reincarnation is indeed a extant phenomenon. But I would personally be just as content if there was no such thing as an afterlife, or reincarnation.

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eek I've never heard of the term vedic, but thanks for sharing. I have a sort of reverence for all the ancient religions. The mythology is fantastical and fun to read, and there's sort of a mystery behind anything ancient.

'Vedic' refers to a set of Hindu scriptures, as well as to the period in time in which they were produced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period

I suppose more properly I wanted to refer to the Indus Valley civilization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization  

[Erise Crewe]

Morgandria

Personally, no. I myself have no experience at all regarding past lives, and I personally neither believe or disbelieve in reincarnation. I have taken my oaths as they are written, and uphold them as sworn, if reincarnation is indeed a extant phenomenon. But I would personally be just as content if there was no such thing as an afterlife, or reincarnation.

I'm weirdly the opposite xd I technically have no religion but I still believe in reincarnation eek So... I don't really know what I am. Paganly atheist?!? For the most part I don't believe in deities I just think there are forces beyond our control and understanding and randomly reincarnation ninja Whether those forces are manifestations of deities, who knows? But I personally don't think so sweatdrop

Also thank you for taking the trouble to find the links I appreciate it heart  

[Morgandria]

Erise Crewe

I'm weirdly the opposite xd I technically have no religion but I still believe in reincarnation eek So... I don't really know what I am. Paganly atheist?!? For the most part I don't believe in deities I just think there are forces beyond our control and understanding and randomly reincarnation ninja Whether those forces are manifestations of deities, who knows? But I personally don't think so sweatdrop

Also thank you for taking the trouble to find the links I appreciate it heart

Even if there's no spiritual afterlife, physics tells us that energy doesn't end - it simply keeps moving from state to state. Whatever energy we are, whether it's what we consider the animating force, or merely the energy that can be broken down from our physical form, will continue onwards and outwards long after we're gone.

I like physics, and the physical laws of our universe. I don't dislike metaphysics, obviously, but I pretty much feel like I already know what I need to just from good old regular physics. If I had not had the experiences in life I have thus far regarding deities, I would be very comfortably an athiest.
And even as a theist, I am still a skeptic.

Our entire lives are shaped by our experiences. We owe it to ourselves to be intelligent, think critically, question what we encounter, and make up our minds the best we can on the information we have.  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

xd One man's weird is another man's normal. ninja

Maybe I can phrase this better- weird in that it has concepts built into it that are opposite of what the core of Buddhism is about.

Kind of like what Sang said- if you have a religion about transcending attachment, a sect dedicated to attachment doesn't make much sense.

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Thinking of Scientology at the moment, but I try not to judge. sweatdrop

I don't think it's fair to compare a religion that has intentionally killed people to prevent their human right's violations secret with mixing Buddhism and Wicca.

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Unfortunately there are going to be people who don't believe in witchcraft who think we're crazy too

I'm talking about weird as in the religion contradicts itself- not in the way that it's foreign.  

[Erise Crewe]

Esiris

I don't think it's fair to compare a religion that has intentionally killed people to prevent their human right's violations secret with mixing Buddhism and Wicca.

xd I wasn't directly comparing. I think of Scientology and that chinese religion, Falun Gong, as cults. But I wanted to point out that many major religions now at one point were considered cults when they first started, since the practices were foreign and people thought it was 'strange'. But there are always ...'unique' people in each religion. There are Buddhist monks that fasted until they mummified themselves eek [somewhat macabre picture here] I don't say that to put down the Buddhist religion, but this one religious practice caused death of an individual. And I don't think the religion is less legitimate because of it, since I think that people chose their religions and that's their own freedom to do so. Even if you're part of one religion I think it's still okay to have some beliefs that aren't exactly in line with it, but that's just my personal opinion.

I understand what you're saying now though.  

[Esiris]

Erise Crewe

xd I wasn't directly comparing. I think of Scientology and that chinese religion, Falun Gong, as cults. But I wanted to point out that many major religions now at one point were considered cults when they first started, since the practices were foreign and people thought it was 'strange'. But there are always ...'unique' people in each religion.

There's another meaning to the word cult- it's basically like a devoted sect of a religion. My English professor was mentioning it earlier and you read about it in some of the older stuff published by Gardner and stuff.

For the whole Buddhist thing, there's a big division between Theistic Buddhism and Non-theistic Buddhism- at least, that's what we've talked about in my diversity class so far- so it's possible to be part of a religion, but I think you have to really look hard at yourself if you're choosing to blend two religions that completely contradict each other.

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Even if you're part of one religion I think it's still okay to have some beliefs that aren't exactly in line with it, but that's just my personal opinion.

I agree with you there! But I think there's stuff that is so opposite that it doesn't make sense to be in the religion anymore.

Like being Catholic and being Gay- you can believe that the Church is just not really understanding the Bible and Love and is making a mistake. Being Catholic and playing soccer with babies doesn't work though.  

[User 27225319]

I don't have much to say about the main topic because i don't know but Mormons don't believe in reincarnation. They are a Christan religion so they believe in heaven and hell. Maybe you meant to say Muslim?  

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

Staring Berry

I don't have much to say about the main topic because i don't know but Mormons don't believe in reincarnation. They are a Christan religion so they believe in heaven and hell. Maybe you meant to say Muslim?

I don't think Muslims believe in reincarnation.

And I have heard of Christians that believe in reincarnation. I think how it went was that Heaven and Hell was the "resting place" between incarnations.  

[Morgandria]

Staring Berry

I don't have much to say about the main topic because i don't know but Mormons don't believe in reincarnation. They are a Christan religion so they believe in heaven and hell. Maybe you meant to say Muslim?

You are correct in that there is no LDS doctrine that accepts reincarnation. It is not officially a part of their church. There are Mysteries to the Mormon faith, but they primarily related to a person's relationship with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and preserving what they consider to be traditions of the various Judaic priesthoods and the Temple as they were passed to them. Reincarnation is not one of those traditions.

Individual Mormons, however, may personally believe in such a thing, encouraged by different writings from Jewish Mysticism that are a part of their source materials, and by differing interpretations of the materials presented therein. A high school friend of mine was Mormon, and her father espoused some belief in the idea of reincarnation.

Apparently there are a few sects of Muslims that have a belief in reincarnation.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Islam)  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Esiris

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Even if you're part of one religion I think it's still okay to have some beliefs that aren't exactly in line with it, but that's just my personal opinion.

I agree with you there! But I think there's stuff that is so opposite that it doesn't make sense to be in the religion anymore.

Like being Catholic and being Gay- you can believe that the Church is just not really understanding the Bible and Love and is making a mistake. Being Catholic and playing soccer with babies doesn't work though.

Does that make sense with Catholicism? I thought in Catholicism, the correct beliefs were spelled out, or at least the parameters given. On matters of doctrine the Pope is infallible, etc, and papal infallibility is an aspect of being Catholic, so believing the church was wrong on a particular issue would probably be some sort of sin of heresy and you'd have to confess it. On the other hand they consider you Catholic even if you leave; you're just lapsed... sin is just a sin. You could play football with baby corpses and still be a Catholic just fine, you'd just be a terrible sinner. It'd probably even be OK depending on the nature of the baby corpses and the time in history in which you kicked them.

But today, be you doubter of papal infallibility or baby kicker, your sins are equal in the eyes of god, aren't they?