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Reply The History of the Church, Israel and the World
Heresy in the Early Church: Did You Know?

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:23 am


Remarkable or little-known facts about heresy in the early church
Tony Lane is director of research and senior lecturer in Christian doctrine at London Bible College. He is author of "Exploring Christian Thought" (Nelson, 1996) and a CHRISTIAN HISTORY adviser. | posted 7/01/1996 12:00AM

The three major creeds of the church are all misnamed. The Apostles’ Creed was not written by the apostles. What is called the Nicene Creed is not the creed that was produced at the Council of Nicea but a later creed. The Athanasian Creed has nothing to do with Athanasius and many have argued that it is not even a creed.

In the Nicene Creed, the key word used to describe Christ’s relation to God—homoousion, meaning, “of the same substance”—had been considered heretical a century earlier. Some earlier orthodox theologians argued that the term was not found in the Bible and that it blurred the distinctions between the Father and the Son.

Though the debate about Christ’s deity extended over centuries, the debate about the Holy Spirit’s divine nature lasted only about twenty years.

Some the greatest of early theologians were confused about Christ’s nature. Clement of Alexandria, for example, masterfully refuted the Gnostic heresy that said Christ did not have a real human body and therefore did not eat and drink. Clement held that Jesus did indeed eat and drink but not because he needed food and drink to stay alive—Jesus, Clement argued, only wished to keep his disciples from heretical beliefs about him.

Not all defenders of orthodoxy stayed orthodox themselves. Tertullian and Novatian, for example, two major anti-Gnostic theologians of the 200s, each fell out of favor with the church: Tertullian, because of his conversion to the Montanist heresy; Novatian, because of his unforgiving stance against those who had denied Christ under persecution.

For a time at Antioch, rival groups differed about the deity of the Holy Spirit. One group prayed, “Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit,” and the other one, “Glory be to the Father with the Son in the Holy Spirit.” The bishop managed to avoid offending either party by developing laryngitis at this point in the liturgy!

During his 45-year reign as bishop of Alexandria, Athanasius, the champion of Nicene orthodoxy, was exiled five times by five emperors, for a total of 17 years. Though his views on Christ’s deity were to become the official teaching of the church, when he died, it was still not clear his views would prevail.

Cyril of Alexandria, a fifth-century Greek bishop, held to the generally accepted belief that God is impassible—incapable of suffering or emotion. He equally held to the deity of Christ, who underwent his “passion” (i.e., his suffering) for us on the cross. This commitment led him to affirm that the eternal Word “suffered impassibly.”

Heretics often provided a great service to the church. For example, Marcion rejected the Old Testament and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and John, thus forcing the church to define the New Testament canon. Arius, in denying the deity of Christ, made the church articulate the doctrine that became the most crucial to Christianity.

Heresy in the Early Church: Did You Know?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:58 pm


I still find it interesting how the division came at a time when the texts and bibles were not readily available in printed format. While there were many disciples, priests, and scholars, the apostles had passed away and new people with new views brought clashing ideas and arguments that caused a major division in the early Church.

Overall I just wish people could have said what the Scriptures said and chosen to answer to God instead of to man and followed the principles of love, grace, and believing God.

One of the greatest influences was trying to make the religions politically correct to appease Caesar and the masses at a time when the early Church also wanted to be separate from Israel both in name and in doctrine.

I'd say that the influence of pagan religions and the Roman Empire, along with the persecution of the early church by both nations and religions caused quite a bit of division when there should have been unity and strength instead.

I'm just ranting at this point. The Western half of the Empire watered things down and appealed to the rulers and masses, and the East stuck to the books and refused to back down from what they viewed as the matchless word of God, and thus a rift between the West and the East formed and worsened over time.

Cynoscion

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:20 pm


Cynoscion
I still find it interesting how the division came at a time when the texts and bibles were not readily available in printed format. While there were many disciples, priests, and scholars, the apostles had passed away and new people with new views brought clashing ideas and arguments that caused a major division in the early Church.

Overall I just wish people could have said what the Scriptures said and chosen to answer to God instead of to man and followed the principles of love, grace, and believing God.

One of the greatest influences was trying to make the religions politically correct to appease Caesar and the masses at a time when the early Church also wanted to be separate from Israel both in name and in doctrine.

I'd say that the influence of pagan religions and the Roman Empire, along with the persecution of the early church by both nations and religions caused quite a bit of division when there should have been unity and strength instead.

I'm just ranting at this point. The Western half of the Empire watered things down and appealed to the rulers and masses, and the East stuck to the books and refused to back down from what they viewed as the matchless word of God, and thus a rift between the West and the East formed and worsened over time.

I am just pointing out that I am not sure I agree with everything stated in this article. Especially "homoousion, meaning, “of the same substance”—had been considered heretical a century earlier." We tend to think that because something is not as well-defined as it is theologically to us currently, that we must have gotten something wrong, or that it is heretical. From Scripture there is much to support "of thee same substance." So I doubt Lane has much factual support for his claim, at least from those early church fathers who knew Scripture.

Division set in even before the Apostles died. Paul had to warn against "Super" apostles who exploited the Corinthians for personal gain. The Corinthians thought these "apostles" were better than Paul, because they charged for their message.

2 Corinthians 12:11-23
Paul’s Concern for the Corinthians
11 I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. 12 I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 13 How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!

14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? 16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery! 17 Did I exploit you through any of the men I sent to you? 18 I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not walk in the same footsteps by the same Spirit?

19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:48 pm


Garland-Green
Cynoscion
I still find it interesting how the division came at a time when the texts and bibles were not readily available in printed format. While there were many disciples, priests, and scholars, the apostles had passed away and new people with new views brought clashing ideas and arguments that caused a major division in the early Church.

Overall I just wish people could have said what the Scriptures said and chosen to answer to God instead of to man and followed the principles of love, grace, and believing God.

One of the greatest influences was trying to make the religions politically correct to appease Caesar and the masses at a time when the early Church also wanted to be separate from Israel both in name and in doctrine.

I'd say that the influence of pagan religions and the Roman Empire, along with the persecution of the early church by both nations and religions caused quite a bit of division when there should have been unity and strength instead.

I'm just ranting at this point. The Western half of the Empire watered things down and appealed to the rulers and masses, and the East stuck to the books and refused to back down from what they viewed as the matchless word of God, and thus a rift between the West and the East formed and worsened over time.

I am just pointing out that I am not sure I agree with everything stated in this article. Especially "homoousion, meaning, “of the same substance”—had been considered heretical a century earlier." We tend to think that because something is not as well-defined as it is theologically to us currently, that we must have gotten something wrong, or that it is heretical. From Scripture there is much to support "of thee same substance." So I doubt Lane has much factual support for his claim, at least from those early church fathers who knew Scripture.

Division set in even before the Apostles died. Paul had to warn against "Super" apostles who exploited the Corinthians for personal gain. The Corinthians thought these "apostles" were better than Paul, because they charged for their message.

2 Corinthians 12:11-23
Paul’s Concern for the Corinthians
11 I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. 12 I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 13 How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!

14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? 16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery! 17 Did I exploit you through any of the men I sent to you? 18 I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not walk in the same footsteps by the same Spirit?

19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Fair points and the truth is the truth no matter people's opinions. I just want to come to a better understanding of God's word and be around like minded believers who put the Word first and man's opinions second is what I'm trying to say.

Cynoscion

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18,100 Points
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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:44 pm


Cynoscion
Garland-Green
Cynoscion
I still find it interesting how the division came at a time when the texts and bibles were not readily available in printed format. While there were many disciples, priests, and scholars, the apostles had passed away and new people with new views brought clashing ideas and arguments that caused a major division in the early Church.

Overall I just wish people could have said what the Scriptures said and chosen to answer to God instead of to man and followed the principles of love, grace, and believing God.

One of the greatest influences was trying to make the religions politically correct to appease Caesar and the masses at a time when the early Church also wanted to be separate from Israel both in name and in doctrine.

I'd say that the influence of pagan religions and the Roman Empire, along with the persecution of the early church by both nations and religions caused quite a bit of division when there should have been unity and strength instead.

I'm just ranting at this point. The Western half of the Empire watered things down and appealed to the rulers and masses, and the East stuck to the books and refused to back down from what they viewed as the matchless word of God, and thus a rift between the West and the East formed and worsened over time.

I am just pointing out that I am not sure I agree with everything stated in this article. Especially "homoousion, meaning, “of the same substance”—had been considered heretical a century earlier." We tend to think that because something is not as well-defined as it is theologically to us currently, that we must have gotten something wrong, or that it is heretical. From Scripture there is much to support "of thee same substance." So I doubt Lane has much factual support for his claim, at least from those early church fathers who knew Scripture.

Division set in even before the Apostles died. Paul had to warn against "Super" apostles who exploited the Corinthians for personal gain. The Corinthians thought these "apostles" were better than Paul, because they charged for their message.

2 Corinthians 12:11-23
Paul’s Concern for the Corinthians
11 I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. 12 I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 13 How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!

14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? 16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery! 17 Did I exploit you through any of the men I sent to you? 18 I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not walk in the same footsteps by the same Spirit?

19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Fair points and the truth is the truth no matter people's opinions. I just want to come to a better understanding of God's word and be around like minded believers who put the Word first and man's opinions second is what I'm trying to say.
I think that is a very sound attitude to have.
Reply
The History of the Church, Israel and the World

 
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