Childhood Indoctrination

[Mrtyu-Mara]

I might get berated by making this thread, but I'd like to understand really the point -- or rather, why people feel it's necessary -- of childhood indoctrination.

I'm against this practice. Indoctrinating your child into following and believing your religion because that's what you believe. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with teaching children about religion as a whole, so long as it's "as a whole", and more about unbiased knowledge of the world religions.

I highly feel that children only believe what mommy and daddy do because mommy and daddy believe, and as a child, they don't really understand the "why?"

I'm an example of childhood indoctrination. In my early childhood, I had been Christian, thanks to my extended family rather than my parents. When I got old enough to understand critical thinking, and ask myself why I called myself as such, I had begun my journey to Atheism. My mom is also an Atheist, but didn't scorn any of her children for walking down a certain religious path.

Unfortunately, some people aren't so lucky. I've had friends who were disowned from converting from Christianity to Atheism -- no longer welcome to holiday events, or anything of that nature. It's horrible, and it makes my heart break, and become more...contemptuous toward the religious. I understand not all religious people are like this, but I'm often skeptical of their personality when I first meet them.

What is so wrong with allowing a child to have no religious affiliation until they're old enough to understand the motive behind believing in a certain religion? I mean, I feel as though that's a lot to ask. I'm just curious as to why people actually feel it's necessary to indoctrinate their children at such a young age.  

[Southern Cross Nemesis]

I don't mean to be the bad boot here, but if a mommy and a daddy undertake a religious event before the child is born. Then incomes Jr. Does the parents stop the religious event? Or if you treat it like a drivers license, then wouldn't the child choose to go that way without questioning anyhow, just because of it is the time? Or if you don't teach a child you way, and leave it to the world... the much of the world has already said, there is no god. What of traditions, many of them have ties to religious reasons, do they go to the wayside?

What I am getting at, how would you teach the child if all you know about religion is one? I know in Christianity we are, pretty much, ordered to question. One who doesn't can fall to false teachers, I am guessing the same is in other religions.

I chose to move into Christianity, no one forced me. My dad, at the time, was an ex-preacher and never talked about the bible, God, or anything for that matter. My mother didn't ether. We only went to church, if someone died, or if someone was getting married. The closest thing to Christianity, I got was listening to my older brother's music. As I grew older, I found more peace in Christianity, and questioning the logic of, than anything else. I still have many questions, that I can't find an answer to, and may have to ask God himself.  

[rmcdra]

I do have to ask just a few questions and I hope you don't take offense to them. What's the difference between indoctrination vs enculturation? How does raising a child to be a citizen of country A teach them not to respect or understand the cultures and citizens of country B, C, D, and E, or more?

Also concerning this comment, "I highly feel that children only believe what mommy and daddy do because mommy and daddy believe, and as a child, they don't really understand the "why?" " Isn't this true for any child regardless of what religion, culture, or philosophy the parent has? Parents are going to teach what they believe is important to children. Children also early on have this annoying habit of asking "why?" Some of us "children" don't grow out of it, some do. Sometimes the answers given satisfy their curiosity, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's later that the answer to their question doesn't satisfy that curiosity. If people aren't satisfied with the answers they have, they will question them, especially if such answers are counter to their life experiences.

"What is so wrong with allowing a child to have no religious affiliation until they're old enough to understand the motive behind believing in a certain religion?" Depending on the religion in question, it would exclude them from a lot of family and cultural events I would think and most parents wouldn't want to do that to their children.

Edit: Word correction  

[Qyp]

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.  

[rmcdra]

Qyp

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.

Please understand that this view is quite common among certain groups of people, especially those in western culture. Even I held to her view at one point in my life. I don't have kids, so having children did not make me more open and understanding of the other side. I basically came to understand that there are selective words used to fosters a sense of otherness toward groups. Basically selectively choosing words so one can relate less with an opposing groups. It's done by a variety of cultures and communities, especially between groups that are in conflict with each other, but if you pay attention and ask questions, you can pick up on it and eventually rise above it. I'm still waiting for an explanation for what the difference is between enculturation and indoctrination is. There is a difference but they can easily be confused especially when dealing with a group that one would like to paint as an "other". We're all guilty of doing it at one point or another since it is part of being the tribal animals we are, but it's recognizing that we do this is how we rise above from being "animals" wink  

[Qyp]

rmcdra

Qyp

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.

Please understand that this view is quite common among certain groups of people, especially those in western culture. Even I held to her view at one point in my life. I don't have kids, so having children did not make me more open and understanding of the other side. I basically came to understand that there are selective words used to fosters a sense of otherness toward groups. Basically selectively choosing words so one can relate less with an opposing groups. It's done by a variety of cultures and communities, especially between groups that are in conflict with each other, but if you pay attention and ask questions, you can pick up on it and eventually rise above it. I'm still waiting for an explanation for what the difference is between enculturation and indoctrination is. There is a difference but they can easily be confused especially when dealing with a group that one would like to paint as an "other". We're all guilty of doing it at one point or another since it is part of being the tribal animals we are, but it's recognizing that we do this is how we rise above from being "animals" wink

I think school is the best way to tell enculturation and indoctrination a part.

Enculturation is peer pressure from friends. They are told how to fit in, how to remain friends.

Indoctrination is the set Education of schools have for every child. The illusion of equalization and all that crap.


On that, indoctrination is the wrong word to use really, since there is many kinds of Christian churches and teachings... they may use the ONE Bible, but that has many translations, and on top of that, the pastor/reverend/priest who is teaching the congregation is teaching THEIR point of view on said translation. Therefore, there isn't really a set education for Christians at even a national scale, heck, a city scale for that matter. Yeah, I could say the same for schools when it comes to how the teachers teach the set education for that whole country, but then again... Christianity is just far more broad.  

[rmcdra]

Qyp

rmcdra

Qyp

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.

Please understand that this view is quite common among certain groups of people, especially those in western culture. Even I held to her view at one point in my life. I don't have kids, so having children did not make me more open and understanding of the other side. I basically came to understand that there are selective words used to fosters a sense of otherness toward groups. Basically selectively choosing words so one can relate less with an opposing groups. It's done by a variety of cultures and communities, especially between groups that are in conflict with each other, but if you pay attention and ask questions, you can pick up on it and eventually rise above it. I'm still waiting for an explanation for what the difference is between enculturation and indoctrination is. There is a difference but they can easily be confused especially when dealing with a group that one would like to paint as an "other". We're all guilty of doing it at one point or another since it is part of being the tribal animals we are, but it's recognizing that we do this is how we rise above from being "animals" wink

I think school is the best way to tell acculturation and indoctrination a part.

Acculturation is peer pressure from friends. They are told how to fit in, how to remain friends.

Indoctrination is the set Education of schools have for every child. The illusion of equalization and all that crap.

Enculturation is the process by which a person learns the requirements of the culture by which he or she is surrounded, and acquires values and behaviours that are appropriate or necessary in that culture.(source:wiki) A form of socialization basically.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine). It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.(source: wiki)

I don't take offense to it since I see it as word games and most don't recognize it.  

[Qyp]

rmcdra

Qyp

rmcdra

Qyp

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.

Please understand that this view is quite common among certain groups of people, especially those in western culture. Even I held to her view at one point in my life. I don't have kids, so having children did not make me more open and understanding of the other side. I basically came to understand that there are selective words used to fosters a sense of otherness toward groups. Basically selectively choosing words so one can relate less with an opposing groups. It's done by a variety of cultures and communities, especially between groups that are in conflict with each other, but if you pay attention and ask questions, you can pick up on it and eventually rise above it. I'm still waiting for an explanation for what the difference is between enculturation and indoctrination is. There is a difference but they can easily be confused especially when dealing with a group that one would like to paint as an "other". We're all guilty of doing it at one point or another since it is part of being the tribal animals we are, but it's recognizing that we do this is how we rise above from being "animals" wink

I think school is the best way to tell acculturation and indoctrination a part.

Acculturation is peer pressure from friends. They are told how to fit in, how to remain friends.

Indoctrination is the set Education of schools have for every child. The illusion of equalization and all that crap.

Enculturation is the process by which a person learns the requirements of the culture by which he or she is surrounded, and acquires values and behaviours that are appropriate or necessary in that culture.(source:wiki) A form of socialization basically.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine). It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.(source: wiki)

I don't take offense to it since I see it as word games and most don't recognize it.

So you are confirming what I said...?

I am pretty sure, Socialization, is majorly effected by peer pressure. I did a bit of sociology at school, don't remember much, but I know peer pressure is one of the biggest causes of "fitting in".  

[rmcdra]

Qyp

rmcdra

Qyp

rmcdra

Qyp

I find school is like that... a set education for everyone... indoctrination in school... YOU MUST LEARN THIS AND THIS TO LIVE IN THIS ROBOTIC WORLD OF CRAP. INDIVIDUALISM IS DEAD.

And I think Everyone does a degree indoctrination, You get taught by who ever raised you, parent or guardian, some things that will stick for you for life. Is that indoctrination? YES.
I do not really see it as FORCED at churches I have been to. It's just like school really, when it comes to children. Well, depending on the religion, cult, etc.


Also, generalization is ******** stupid.

Also, are you a parent? No? Then go raise a kid, and learn something new. You will probably catch yourself spewing your views all over your kids.

Please understand that this view is quite common among certain groups of people, especially those in western culture. Even I held to her view at one point in my life. I don't have kids, so having children did not make me more open and understanding of the other side. I basically came to understand that there are selective words used to fosters a sense of otherness toward groups. Basically selectively choosing words so one can relate less with an opposing groups. It's done by a variety of cultures and communities, especially between groups that are in conflict with each other, but if you pay attention and ask questions, you can pick up on it and eventually rise above it. I'm still waiting for an explanation for what the difference is between enculturation and indoctrination is. There is a difference but they can easily be confused especially when dealing with a group that one would like to paint as an "other". We're all guilty of doing it at one point or another since it is part of being the tribal animals we are, but it's recognizing that we do this is how we rise above from being "animals" wink

I think school is the best way to tell acculturation and indoctrination a part.

Acculturation is peer pressure from friends. They are told how to fit in, how to remain friends.

Indoctrination is the set Education of schools have for every child. The illusion of equalization and all that crap.

Enculturation is the process by which a person learns the requirements of the culture by which he or she is surrounded, and acquires values and behaviours that are appropriate or necessary in that culture.(source:wiki) A form of socialization basically.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine). It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.(source: wiki)

I don't take offense to it since I see it as word games and most don't recognize it.

So you are confirming what I said...?

I am pretty sure, Socialization, is majorly effected by peer pressure. I did a bit of sociology at school, don't remember much, but I know peer pressure is one of the biggest causes of "fitting in".

Just stating that in colloquial language, indoctrination is usually a pejorative and can be interchanged with socialization. The distinction is context.  

[jaden kendam]

Ontological Empiricism

I might get berated by making this thread, but I'd like to understand really the point -- or rather, why people feel it's necessary -- of childhood indoctrination.

Are you equating indoctrination to brain washing or forced beliefs?

Ontological Empiricism

I'm against this practice. Indoctrinating your child into following and believing your religion because that's what you believe.

So you are basically saying brain washing?

Ontological Empiricism

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with teaching children about religion as a whole, so long as it's "as a whole", and more about unbiased knowledge of the world religions.

I have met more people who do this than not. Although I have met a a few angtstheist parents who try to force their children to hate all Christians. As well as pagans who do the same. Yes, I have also met Christians who try to teach their children hate, but the whole Jesus camp really seems to be a minor thing.

I highly feel that children only believe what mommy and daddy do because mommy and daddy believe, and as a child, they don't really understand the "why?"

Ontological Empiricism

I'm an example of childhood indoctrination. In my early childhood, I had been Christian, thanks to my extended family rather than my parents. When I got old enough to understand critical thinking, and ask myself why I called myself as such, I had begun my journey to Atheism. My mom is also an Atheist, but didn't scorn any of her children for walking down a certain religious path.

My parents let me and my brothers explore whatever religions we want. One of my brothers is a Christian, one is an ENP, one is irreligious and I am a religious apatheist.

Ontological Empiricism

Unfortunately, some people aren't so lucky. I've had friends who were disowned from converting from Christianity to Atheism -- no longer welcome to holiday events, or anything of that nature. It's horrible, and it makes my heart break, and become more...contemptuous toward the religious. I understand not all religious people are like this, but I'm often skeptical of their personality when I first meet them.

I myself am skeptical of all people who act like all religions equate to the Evangelical view of Christianity. I am also skeptical of religious, any religious person, who claims to be open minded.

Ontological Empiricism

What is so wrong with allowing a child to have no religious affiliation until they're old enough to understand the motive behind believing in a certain religion? I mean, I feel as though that's a lot to ask. I'm just curious as to why people actually feel it's necessary to indoctrinate their children at such a young age.

Again, I think you are using a loaded word, but what is actually wrong with parents wanting their children to partake in their holidays? As long as the parent is not telling the child that they are going to burn in hell for not praying at Thanksgiving or Samhain, then I am not sure there is a problem. It's the scare tactics people that are a problem and they should probably get psychological help.  

[Mrtyu-Mara]

rmcdra

I do have to ask just a few questions and I hope you don't take offense to them. What's the difference between indoctrination vs enculturation? How does raising a child to be a citizen of country A teach them not to respect or understand the cultures and citizens of country B, C, D, and E, or more?

Speaking from experience, parents would rarely teach their child about other countries, and the main religions (or any religion/belief) of those countries, or cultural practices. It was more of "this is what we believe and do, period."

Quote:

Also concerning this comment, "I highly feel that children only believe what mommy and daddy do because mommy and daddy believe, and as a child, they don't really understand the "why?" " Isn't this true for any child regardless of what religion, culture, or philosophy the parent has? Parents are going to teach what they believe is important to children. Children also early on have this annoying habit of asking "why?" Some of us "children" don't grow out of it, some do. Sometimes the answers given satisfy their curiosity, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's later that the answer to their question doesn't satisfy that curiosity. If people aren't satisfied with the answers they have, they will question them, especially if such answers are counter to their life experiences.

You're correct, it is true that children usually follow their parents' views, be it religion, or politics. But it should be the parents' job to inform their child about other beliefs, other cultures, and other philosophies, especially from a more unbiased light (instead of saying things like "Well idiots believe this, that, and the other thing, while us intelligent people believe this".). When I was in high school, majority of my fellow students didn't even know what an "atheist" was. When I'd explain to them what it meant, they looked baffled. It was foreign to them, and I'd get follow-up questions like "So do you believe in the Devil? Do you believe in Heaven/Hell?" and the like. These people were kept in the dark about us "godless heathens" and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know the basics of other world religions or beliefs.

Quote:

"What is so wrong with allowing a child to have no religious affiliation until they're old enough to understand the motive behind believing in a certain religion?" Depending on the religion in question, it would exclude them from a lot of family and cultural events I would think and most parents wouldn't want to do that to their children.

Edit: Word correction

But why would it exclude them, really? Some of the Atheist friends I have are unwelcome to attend holidays such as Easter or Christmas, because they're Atheist. For us, these holidays are more about spending time and being with family, rather than celebrating Jesus. I just feel like you don't have to exclude family from certain events unless you truly want to.  

[Mrtyu-Mara]

jaden kendam

Ontological Empiricism

I might get berated by making this thread, but I'd like to understand really the point -- or rather, why people feel it's necessary -- of childhood indoctrination.

Are you equating indoctrination to brain washing or forced beliefs?

Brain washing sounds so ugly. I'd say, in some way, it's more forced beliefs.

Quote:

Ontological Empiricism

I'm against this practice. Indoctrinating your child into following and believing your religion because that's what you believe.

So you are basically saying brain washing?

Again, I'd say it's more forcing beliefs on your child. Mommy and daddy want you to believe in what mommy and daddy do, because this belief is important to us, and we want you to follow our footsteps.

Quote:

Ontological Empiricism

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with teaching children about religion as a whole, so long as it's "as a whole", and more about unbiased knowledge of the world religions.

I have met more people who do this than not. Although I have met a a few angtstheist parents who try to force their children to hate all Christians. As well as pagans who do the same. Yes, I have also met Christians who try to teach their children hate, but the whole Jesus camp really seems to be a minor thing.

From personal experience, as I told rmcdra, I've encountered more Christian children not knowing the basics of other world religions, or even what an "atheist" was. I feel as though they're being kept in the dark, or mommy and daddy just don't want to teach them opposing beliefs. After my atheism became known in high school, I was bullied quite regularly, often called a Satan worshipper, or outcasted, treated like some sort of social pariah.

I live in a pretty religious part of Ohio, so I haven't really met any "angtstheists" or pagans who try to teach their children that Christianity is bad, and all Christians are bad.

Quote:

Ontological Empiricism

I'm an example of childhood indoctrination. In my early childhood, I had been Christian, thanks to my extended family rather than my parents. When I got old enough to understand critical thinking, and ask myself why I called myself as such, I had begun my journey to Atheism. My mom is also an Atheist, but didn't scorn any of her children for walking down a certain religious path.

My parents let me and my brothers explore whatever religions we want. One of my brothers is a Christian, one is an ENP, one is irreligious and I am a religious apatheist.

This is a good thing, because I feel like not everyone is so lucky. As was said before, I'm friends with a few Atheists who converted from Christianity, and their parents/family scorn them, or disown them as a whole. It shows intolerance in my eyes, really.

Quote:

Ontological Empiricism

Unfortunately, some people aren't so lucky. I've had friends who were disowned from converting from Christianity to Atheism -- no longer welcome to holiday events, or anything of that nature. It's horrible, and it makes my heart break, and become more...contemptuous toward the religious. I understand not all religious people are like this, but I'm often skeptical of their personality when I first meet them.

I myself am skeptical of all people who act like all religions equate to the Evangelical view of Christianity. I am also skeptical of religious, any religious person, who claims to be open minded.

I don't really equate all religions to be the evangelical view of Christianity, and I don't really equate all Christians to the evangelical view, or fundamentalist view. I've met some very nice, very generous Christians with whom I had the pleasure of meeting, and others, not so much. All walks of life, really.

Quote:

Ontological Empiricism

What is so wrong with allowing a child to have no religious affiliation until they're old enough to understand the motive behind believing in a certain religion? I mean, I feel as though that's a lot to ask. I'm just curious as to why people actually feel it's necessary to indoctrinate their children at such a young age.

Again, I think you are using a loaded word, but what is actually wrong with parents wanting their children to partake in their holidays? As long as the parent is not telling the child that they are going to burn in hell for not praying at Thanksgiving or Samhain, then I am not sure there is a problem. It's the scare tactics people that are a problem and they should probably get psychological help.

Why can someone of a differing religious viewpoint not partake in a holiday with family? I mean, I guess it really just depends on the religion in question, but as an Atheist, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, I celebrate them for being with my family, instead of the religious aspect. I don't necessarily agree with outcasting your child or any family member from celebrating family, just because they may have a different belief compared to your own. It's silly to me, to say the least.  

[Victoria of Gallifrey]

Well, there are pros and cons to this. I was immersed in my options... many, many, many options. I was introduced to Wicca, Christianity, Athabascan Shamanism, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hindu by the age of 12. In the end, I couldn't conceive how one could really be all that more true than the other, and I could never decide. Not everyone experiences this trouble. Some people see truth in a walk of life outright, or over time. Early on I decided I would assimilate what seemed good, and leave the rest up for debate. With so many different versions of the truth, I could only conclude there was no absolute, religious truth. I understand some people see indoctrination is bad. And I can see how it can be a detriment in some cases.

For my own children, I teach them in accordance to law. They are not allowed to steal because it's illegal and upsets people. When they try stealing I take away something they like, so they understand how it makes people feel. They understand stealing is bad because of this. In terms of religion, I answer their questions to the best of my ability. As soon as their questions grow beyond my capacity to answer them, I will refer them to those more experienced. I would like to introduce them to christianity, since it is largely practiced, and at least one other religion, but I'll let their curiosities take lead. Of course, as they grow, I will advise them to the best of my ability, and I will not object to their selection. I may object to their behavior if it becomes questionable, but it won't be oriented towards their preference of religion. That's pretty much my stance on it.  

[rmcdra]

Ontological Empiricism

Speaking from experience, parents would rarely teach their child about other countries, and the main religions (or any religion/belief) of those countries, or cultural practices. It was more of "this is what we believe and do, period."

Speaking from experience is heart of the problem. Most parents don't know enough about other cultures or religions unless those parents are from those cultures or religions. They know what works for them and want to convey that. They want what they believe to be the best for their children whether what they are doing is for the best or not. They teach what they know from experience and what philosophies they hold concerning life. Also you didn't answer my question. What is the difference between indoctrination and socialization/enculturation?

Quote:

You're correct, it is true that children usually follow their parents' views, be it religion, or politics. But it should be the parents' job to inform their child about other beliefs, other cultures, and other philosophies, especially from a more unbiased light (instead of saying things like "Well idiots believe this, that, and the other thing, while us intelligent people believe this".).

Why? If the parent in question really does think the other side is idiotic or wrong, why should they? I'm not going to let my children believe the earth is flat or that sun revolves around the earth. I can understand why one would believe this misconception but I would teach as a misconception. Would I be wrong in doing so? If so why? Edit: In general parents teach what they know and what they think is best for their kids to live and to participate in their community. Some parents don't have the foresight to explain why they disagree with other stances or lack the knowledge of the other side of the argument, or don't understand the other views in general. Again it goes back to parents teaching what they know from experience whether it be good or bad. Part of growing up for children is learning that parents don't know everything or always make good choices.

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When I was in high school, majority of my fellow students didn't even know what an "atheist" was. When I'd explain to them what it meant, they looked baffled. It was foreign to them, and I'd get follow-up questions like "So do you believe in the Devil? Do you believe in Heaven/Hell?" and the like. These people were kept in the dark about us "godless heathens" and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know the basics of other world religions or beliefs.

When I was in school I was tease and bullied for having feet that pointed outward. I was "Penguin Feet". Children are cruel and lack complete socialization. I still have a hard time and get funny looks when I say that I'm a Gnostic. "Does that mean you worship Satan? Do you reject Jesus? Why do you hate the Jews?" Most of what we learn is stereotypes. It's an unfortunate side effect of inductive reasoning, while it limits what we understand in general it's been a useful survival tool. That red plants Ug ate killed her, I should not eat red plants. That furry thing kept Oog warm. All furry things will keep us warm. It can be wrong as is the case with stereotypes. Making generalizations is part of being human.

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But why would it exclude them, really? Some of the Atheist friends I have are unwelcome to attend holidays such as Easter or Christmas, because they're Atheist. For us, these holidays are more about spending time and being with family, rather than celebrating Jesus. I just feel like you don't have to exclude family from certain events unless you truly want to.

Excluding Christianity in general, most religions are ritual based. By participating in those rituals, you are participating in the religion and being a member of it in doing so. In certain ethnic religions, just being born to parents precludes membership to that religion. By denying them membership in the religion, it would exclude them from the community and/or conveys that you don't consider them part of the family.  

[Mrtyu-Mara]

rmcdra

Ontological Empiricism

Speaking from experience, parents would rarely teach their child about other countries, and the main religions (or any religion/belief) of those countries, or cultural practices. It was more of "this is what we believe and do, period."

Speaking from experience is heart of the problem. Most parents don't know enough about other cultures or religions unless those parents are from those cultures or religions. They know what works for them and want to convey that. They want what they believe to be the best for their children whether what they are doing is for the best or not. They teach what they know from experience and what philosophies they hold concerning life. Also you didn't answer my question. What is the difference between indoctrination and socialization/enculturation?

Enculturation and indoctrination are two different animals. "Enculturation" is the process where the culture that is currently established teaches an individual the accepted norms and values of the culture or society in which the individual lives. Most importantly the individual knows and establishes a context of boundaries and accepted behavior that dictates what is acceptable and not acceptable within the framework of that society.

"Indoctrination" is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It's basically a "don't think, obey." type of deal. The person being indoctrinated is expected to not question or critically examine the doctrine they've learned.

You have me walking a fine line, rmcdra. But enculturation can happen consciously or unconsciously, either by observation of social constructs, or direction. Indoctrination is, if not always, consciously done by a family member (ex. parents). "We believe in this religion, and follow these practices, and you will because we do."

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You're correct, it is true that children usually follow their parents' views, be it religion, or politics. But it should be the parents' job to inform their child about other beliefs, other cultures, and other philosophies, especially from a more unbiased light (instead of saying things like "Well idiots believe this, that, and the other thing, while us intelligent people believe this".).

Why? If the parent in question really does think the other side is idiotic or wrong, why should they? I'm not going to let my children believe the earth is flat or that sun revolves around the earth. I can understand why one would believe this misconception but I would teach as a misconception. Would I be wrong in doing so? If so why?

In regards to world religions, it shows intolerance, and somewhat ignorance, when someone dismisses an opposing belief as "stupid" or "idiotic". In your examples, we know that the Earth isn't flat, and that the sun doesn't revolve around the Earth. We also know that the Earth isn't made out of cheese. The reasoning as to why someone to this day might still believe these things escapes me.

I'm referring more to something along the lines of: "Some stupid people believe in a stupid idea of reincarnation. Some idiots like to believe there's no afterlife. Some dumbasses like to think there's a bearded man floating around in the cosmos. Some asshats like to believe there is no god at all."

So in your case, I don't really think you'd be wrong in teaching it as a misconception that people believe the Earth is flat, or the sun revolves around the Earth. I think you'd be wrong if you told someone their religious belief is stupid or wrong, simply because it may differ from your own.