Join the Dark Side: We have cookies

[deadmanjay]

Would you ever think about renouncing your Christian/Other Religious ways if someone persuaded you with information/money/power/cookies?  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

Cookies?
ninja

I want to know how you actually truly 'renounce' a belief... I could say whatever I wanted, or whatever I thought someone else wanted to hear, but it doesn't mean I suddenly don't believe it.

I mean, are you just trying to get people to SAY they don't believe something, or are you truly wanting them to change the way they believe?

Are we going to talk about Peter turning chicken s**t and saying he didn't know Jesus? I honestly think the hurt lies more in the fact that he wasn't there for his friend, more than anything else. I mean, if I had been running around with someone for 3+ years and suddenly I get thrown in the slammer and put on death row, and the someone I counted as my best friend wasn't there for me, well... I would be pretty bummed beyond the already depressing fact that I was gonna have the shittiest weekend ever. The fact that he might be in danger if he knew me though would kinda be hard not to understand though, given the fact that I WAS scheduled to be tortured to death.

As for personal beliefs, I think that is just that, personal... There really isn't a whole lot of stock you can put in someone's statement of their belief, because you don't really know what's in their heart.

As for changing what I actually believe for info... I have changed what I believe, almost on a daily basis really, because I learn new stuff every day. Every new thing I learn means I have to refactor what I already know (or thought I knew).

And since I don't put any value in converting others... Mostly because I have learned that I could never know enough to take the responsibility of another person's soul upon myself... I really don't care overly much if people know what I believe or have the wrong idea... Not that I don't like to share my learnings. LOL

At the same time, I do want people to take me serious when I say something. I don't want to give up my free will and my integrity.

If it came to it though, as if I were put in a situation where I had to renounce an organized religion or some such, or say, my family would get executed, then I would gladly give up the religion, because religion and relationship are 2 different things. I would lay down my rights and my ego in a heartbeat when it came to the people I am responsible for. It wouldn't change what I believe to be true... and it would just fuel my will to fight in the long run, because I don't like having no real choice.

If the police approached me and told me that they would kill my family if I said I was best friends with my best friend, she would understand when I said I didn't know her. Why would Jesus be less understanding?

It's a slippery slop really, but I am flexible. rolleyes If, in the long run, I can do more for the greater good, I will do what I have to.  

[rmcdra]

This is one of the debates that early Christians got into. Is it moral to claim to "renounce" one's faith if it means to preserve one's life. Some Christians would argue yes, because sometimes you need to choose between the lesser of two evils. Lying about one's affiliation was viewed as a lesser evil than being killed for that affiliation. Others would argue that it's immoral to reject one's affiliation because they see it as rejecting God/gods/aspect of one's identity.

Honestly though, if it's a part of who you are and your beliefs/religions/philosophy is your way of life, it's going to be pretty hard to deny/hide it. You could deny it but actions based on that aspect would show up. Like the people who are in the closet or trying to hide the fact that they are gay, you could suppress it all you want and hide from it, but it's going to show itself.  

[Southern Cross Nemesis]

What kind of cookies are you offering? Chocolate chip, Peanut butter, white chocolate macadamia nut cookies... and is milk or coffee part of the package? this is need to know information.

Seeing as I already have renounced Christianity... can I have my cookie? xd

I have to agree with what the other two said, Elta and Rob, not much more to say.  

[deadmanjay]

Southern Cross Nemesis

What kind of cookies are you offering? Chocolate chip, Peanut butter, white chocolate macadamia nut cookies... and is milk or coffee part of the package? this is need to know information.

Seeing as I already have renounced Christianity... can I have my cookie? xd

I have to agree with what the other two said, Elta and Rob, not much more to say.

Cookies made with the blood of children? Oh wait, thats for my atheist party im attending later. Oh, and coffee. If someone does not give me coffee with my ******** cookies, I swear I will beat them til coffee drips from their very pores. So yeah, pick your type of poison Southern and get coffee too.  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

I want milk stare  

[jaden kendam]

what brought you out of the woodwork old man?

I agree with the others. To get information or under penalty of death you can say you denounce your beliefs, but really not get rid of them. Only under time periods of indoctrination would your deeper beliefs probably change. That is obviously contingent upon what the indoctrination is and how willed the individual is to resistance.  

[deadmanjay]

Eltanin Sadachbia

I want milk stare

What the ******** is milk? Something healthy or something?  

[deadmanjay]

jaden kendam

what brought you out of the woodwork old man?

I agree with the others. To get information or under penalty of death you can say you denounce your beliefs, but really not get rid of them. Only under time periods of indoctrination would your deeper beliefs probably change. That is obviously contingent upon what the indoctrination is and how willed the individual is to resistance.

It's s**t like this Jaden that made you lose. You know for a fact that the reason you stopped garnering the knowledge is because yer weird sense of ethics stopped you from truly garnering that which you desire. For the greater good I think eltanin mentioned or alluded to, sometimes you have to break or appear to break eggs. You weren't willing to break some eggs to make cookies. Yer answer is true and philosophical, but yer practice was lost.  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

deadmanjay

What the ******** is milk? Something healthy or something?

The white liquid you get in the dairy isle at the store. I don't know if it's really healthy or not, I suppose it depends on where you get it from. Some studies say it causes cancer. It's probably true, cause it taste Damn good with cookies.  

[Contralto in a Corset]

I think it was Stephen who set the standard on how far he would be pushed before renouncing Christ. He was stoned to death after calling the Sanhedrin a bunch of stiff necked ignorant morons, and declaring in front of a large host of witnesses that the "Son of Man"(Christ) stood in heaven on the right side of God, knowing that this woulld result in his being stoned to death. His final response? Asking for his killers forgiveness.

I would LIKE to think that I would stand as equally steadfast. I'm a bit too much of an a*****e to actually beg for my killers forgiveness, so I can't claim that I may stand so pious, but if I can stand so certainly in my faith, I could feel at peace. What greater price can you give in life, than life itself?