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 Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:42 pm
Someone tied 2 john 9-11 to not allowing people who hold to a different religion into your country, or invite them into your house. Is that the correct interpretation? It seems to me like the verses are about those that abandon Jesus. Someone who doesn't continue in the faith?
2 John 9-11
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:49 pm
*edited to clarify phrasing About the chapter itself: I read the chapter. This is about close intimacy with those professing Christ, but a different Christ, and allowing them into our fellowships (because one's home is where the Church—the body of Christ—gathered/congregated). Such people are associating with Christ, but not the truth that the disciples taught (and whose teachings we have in written form).
Quoting up to verse 7 contextualizes the verse better.
2 John 7-11 (NIV)
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
Footnotes:
a. 2 John 1:8 Some manuscripts you
We cannot affiliate with such people (who negate biblical truths all while sporting the name of Jesus) or else we cause confusion and become liars by association. Welcoming the liar into the congregation / house (which, when you think about it, is where the early church met up: in the believers' homes) is the same thing as expressing approval of them and what they teach. How will the rest of the body know this person is a liar and someone teaching heresy if we allow him to continue in our midst, and not just that, openly welcoming them with a holy kiss? We need to express disapproval—and not just verbally, but by not socializing with them, or even allowing them in, or else we give off the vibe that we're in agreement:
And if we're not in agreement then we should be doing everything possible to stop their lies from spreading and infecting the rest of the body. Welcoming them gives opportunity for these dangerous lies to be passed around, to those in our house, and in the body of Christ. We're giving them a platform to speak.
And this is not just protection for the body, but to guard our reputation in the minds of those outside the faith, out in the world, who wouldn't know how to discern the difference: "well, if he's a part of your group, then both of you must believe the same thing; and if he says that Jesus never incarnated, then you must teach the same thing because you guys fellowship/hang out together on a habitual, regular basis, he's in your group, thus you accept each other, are on friendly terms, instead of rejecting one another". In a way, it's like fellowshipping with an atheist who is hiding behind a Christian label and allowing him to speak his beliefs to the body or as a representative of Christ :l Separation must happen. John expressed himself in a similar way to what Paul wrote in his own epistles elsewhere:
2 Thessalonians 3:6 (NIV)
6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us.
Footnotes:
a. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Or tradition
2 Timothy 3:5 (NIV)
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
1 Corinthians 5:11 (NIV)
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 5:11 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a believer, whether man or woman, as part of God’s family; also in 8:11, 13.
About ImmigrationBut, as far as immigration goes—since that command applies to our group / our congregation (and say the whole nation was comprised exclusively of that group) sure, don't allow the immigrant with contrary beliefs in. But we don't have our own nation, at most we have our little congregations/gatherings. If we had our own nation, then yes, I could see this applying in the same way as Exodus 23:33.
Exodus 23:33 (NIV)
33 Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you.”
Here too it's because of what they worship. (Which is why the USA is NOT a Christian nation whatsoever; no nation under God—under the Living God—believes in free exercise of ANY and every religion, unless it's the true religion). YHWH is against letting people who won't give up their idolatrous religions/beliefs from taking root in the land (in our congregations, large or small) because it affects EVERYTHING: the very government / judicial process is based on his laws afterall. How can we say, "let's render justice and get rid of corruption and sin" when the other groups of people determine justice on totally different terms, think our Heavenly Father's way is unjust and don't think sin is criminal? Conflict.
Though I think God will have his way in the USA—using Muslims of all people lol. Muslims are already taking positions of authority in government in certain areas: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/hamtramck-is-1st-american-city-to-elect-majority-muslim-council/36260616 — and even where they haven't, I caught wift of this article, a Democrat making banks conform to Sharia Law to accommodate Muslim immigrants: http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/major-u-s-city-poised-to-implement-islamic-law/ & http://www.progressivestoday.com/seattle-mayor-wants-interest-free-housing-muslims/ (which from the outset, doesn't look too bad, because on this they do agree with our Heavenly Father's Law (the Law that God gave to Moses) about not charging interest on loans. Only God knows how this will pan out. Stay alert and keep watching is all I can say.
But not to digress, and back on immigration:
Even in light of Exodus 23:33, our Heavenly Father is not against ALL forms of immigration full stop. Afterall, Rahab from Jericho (i.e. Joshua 6:25) and Ruth from Moab (i.e. Ruth 1:22) lived amongst Israel. What they have in common, however? They rejected their culture/gods, and opted instead for YHWH and Israel (the set-apart nation / the set-apart congregation of believers)—and they're even a part of Jesus' genealogy.
If a person wouldn't submit to YHWH's Law, then they couldn't live amongst them...I mean, technically, they could come into the country and try, but as soon as they blasphemed, worshiped an idol, etc (any sin / transgression of the law worthy of death) they were supposed to be stoned to death (removed from the congregation); such immigrants wouldn't last under such a reign. The law is the same both for the natural-born and the foreigner living amongst us. Of course, if they're under the New Covenant, we can't stone them because Jesus died in their place, so at most, remove them from the country (if the whole nation is comprised of God's set-apart congregation).
Leviticus 24:16 (NIV)
16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.
Deuteronomy 17:2-7 (NIV)
2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
And rewinding to the topic of Sharia Law, if Muslims do manage to incorporate Sharia Law more and more, to the point that it reflects other Muslims' countries, adopting the same form of “interpretation” of what it means to blaspheme, that's a problem; if history is any indicator, and if certain translations of the Quran are any indicator, it includes saying Jesus is YHWH incarnate >_> that Jesus is the Son of God.
Surah 5:72-73 (YUSUF ALI)
72 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
73 They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
In the same way that the Pharisees accused Jesus of committing blasphemy when Jesus claimed to be the I AM:
John 8:58-59 (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
But not to digress (...again lol), if we had our own nation, then yes, we could prohibit immigrants based on their religion/beliefs/doctrine (because it's the same thing as a Christian congregation, just on a larger scale. But the USA is not a Christian nation, so, we can't. At most, this is limited to our little congregations—for the protection of our own doctrine and fellow sheep and the guarding of our reputation in the eyes of the world).
Which now that I mention it: the New Jerusalem will be exactly like this (not everyone can enter).
Revelation 21:27 (NIV)
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Only if you submit to God, and put on his nature, can you enter (and stay in).
---
P.S.
The potential for Sharia Law taking over confuses me—assuming YHWH allows it. Should we approve of it...? considering how much it agrees with the Law of Moses (compared to all these political parties)?
On the one hand, if we allow Sharia Law, we allow the possibility of people misinterpreting the blasphemy command, which would allow the death penalty for statements like “Jesus is the Son of God” or even Jesus himself saying he is the I AM. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though: wouldn't that be God inviting us comfortable Americans to obtain a better resurrection (LOL)? assuming we stay faithful to Jesus even at sword point/decapitation/death penalty for “blaspheming God” according to certain Islamic interpretations (again, because saying Jesus is God = blasphemy).
But on the other hand, the Quran—and thus Sharia Law—negates that Jesus is the Son of God. So why should we support it at all =_='
Surah 4:171 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
Suah 9:31 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.
Surah 23:91 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)
Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him].
This is a lot to think about. emotion_sweatdrop
---
In a nutshell: yes, under the right circumstances, 2 John 1:9-11 could prevent immigration if the whole nation was a Christian congregation, who based itself on the truth, and actually had the boldness to obey what is written. It is no different than what Exodus 23:33 prohibits in spirit.
And if Sharia Law takes root, it will be the wake up call to all these people who preach tolerance, taking tolerance to its natural conclusion calls for the decimation of your own culture, because you're obligated to accommodate them all, including the one(s) that eradicate the existence of other idols/gods/beliefs. Lol. YHWH wins / Jesus wins—even if the Muslims slaughter us for a while, because we get resurrected first. Ha! Take that Pharisees razz Like the CHRISTians we are, we're following in Jesus' footsteps ^_^
The Quran says:
Crucify them
Surah 5:33 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Behead them
Surah 47:4 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
Compared to the Bible, we're the ones getting beheaded:
Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Footnotes:
a. Revelation 20:4 Or God; I also saw those who
This makes me want to continue reading the Quran (edit: for comparison/contrast's sake), but the vagueness of it is so painful :[ ...ah gonk
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:02 am
By the logic about loans shouldn't lenders chance policies based on the biblical cycle of debt-forgiveness? sweatdrop Quote: Deuteronomy 15King James Version (KJV) 15 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. 2 And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the Lord's release. 3 Of a foreigner thou mayest exact it again: but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release; 4 Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the Lord shall greatly bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it: 5 Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day. 6 For the Lord thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee. 7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: 8 But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. 9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the Lord against thee, and it be sin unto thee. 10 Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. 11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land. 12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. 13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: 14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. 15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the Lord thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day. Interesting that it doesn't outline anything about helping those who aren't your 'brothers' here only that you can reenact their loan?
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