Barely five days after The New York Times ran a major news article on the firing of Atlanta’s fire chief for his views on homosexuality, a major Times opinion writer declared that religious liberty is a fine thing, so long as it is restricted to “pews, homes, and hearts” — far from public consequence. The firing of Kelvin Cochran as chief of Atlanta’s Fire Rescue Department came after the city’s mayor, Kasim Reed, determined that the chief could not effectively manage the department after he had written a book in which he cited Scripture in defining homosexuality as a sin.
The most crucial portion of the Times story includes the mayor’s rationale: “At a news conference, Mr. Reed said that Mr. Cochran’s ‘personal religious beliefs are not the issue.’ But Atlanta’s nondiscrimination policy, the mayor added, is ‘nonnegotiable.’
‘Despite my respect for Chief Cochran’s service, I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force,’ Mr. Reed said. ‘Every single employee under the fire chief’s command deserves the certainty that he or she is a valued member of the team and that fairness and respect guide employment decisions.'”
But the mayor’s words do not form a coherent argument. Chief Cochran was fired precisely because his “personal religious beliefs” are, in the mayor’s mind, incompatible with assuring every member of the department “that he or she is a valued member of the team and that fairness and respect guide employment decisions.”
I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force
Yet the 'diversity' of his beliefs are not tolerated? It's amazing how tolerance these days usually means tolerating only those who agree with you.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:43 am
OtakuKat
So sad.
Isn't it...
Lady Kariel
Quote:
I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force
Yet the 'diversity' of his beliefs are not tolerated? It's amazing how tolerance these days usually means tolerating only those who agree with you.
Understand it whoever can. We live in a strange strange time. Where up is down, left is right. Where emotions trump biology and pretty much any argument you can make from reason. Where there is really no absolutes except the current sociological consensus. Where everyone before us are considered ignorant savages and our time is a time of enlightenment.
Excuse me, but his beliefs were not personal. It is considered public if you decide to write a book and publish it for everyone's eyes. Would you want a boss who decided to write a book discriminating against christians? It's perfectly reasonable that he was fired. Ways he could have avoided being fired are as follows; Not post a public book, making his beliefs public and insulting members of our community who are pretty much the same race as we are.
His removal from the position of fire chief was politically and morally correct.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:04 pm
edited to correct typo's
Mercurite
Excuse me, but his beliefs were not personal. It is considered public if you decide to write a book and publish it for everyone's eyes.
Who says beliefs should be kept secret (how you're using the word "personal" in contrast to "public")...? Religion affects how you think, speak, act, interact with everyone else, what you eat, how you dress, etc; and if he wants to publish a book for others to read and to share his beliefs, how is that morally wrong? according to whose standards/definitions of right and wrong?
The government's sense of right and wrong? Considering he's in the USA, the free exercise of religion means you can practice everything that your religion requires of you (amongst that being the religion's requirement to share their beliefs, the gospel, and the Commands of YHWH) and freedom of speech means that you can freely speak what you want.
Quote Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
So, his actions are not wrong according to the government's sense of right and wrong.
or YHWH's sense of right and wrong? Clearly, in YHWH's eyes, he's doing nothing wrong for speaking what YHWH Commands (thus agreeing with his God).
or an atheist's sense of right and wrong? why should an atheist's opinion affect the free exercise of religion of someone else?
Your statement has no basis to stand on: based on whose standards of right and wrong is this morally incorrect? and why should we submit to yours or someone else's?
I don't think you've realized this: but moral judgments / moral standards exist whether one is religious or irreligious. And the government will be imposing somebody's sense of right and wrong on someone else—by virtue of being government and imposing laws. Unless there's a higher authority, beyond human, to decide which moral standard is to be submitted to, people do not have a basis for why to impose their own moral standards on others. But they do it anyway, don't they? Because reality agrees: moral standards need to be imposed on others.
However, that's not to say that there's no absolute standard of truth. And the standards that conform to reality are YHWH's Commands: you should not kill unlawfully (there is a time to kill: e.g. premeditated murderers / serial killers who have no intention of stopping); failing to adhere to YHWH's Commands concerning this results in injustice, bodily and emotional misuse, does not alleviate the conscience of the blameless, nor protect the blameless. We should not commit adultery / cheat on our spouse, bodily or emotionally, because it causes physical and emotional detriment, and violates trust between your spouse. You should not be sexually immoral because of how it affects bodily organs, the digestive system [which starts in the mouth and ends at the a**s and urethra], etc...thus failing to honor the function YHWH created our organs to have.
In contrast, religious standards that people impose upon themselves, that do not come from YHWH, such as: which shoe to tie on first, not to mix any and all dairy with any and all meat, that you have to eat everything strained through a cloth, and that we should refrain from capitally killing anyone, even the premeditatedly guilty, etc...all of those ideas/philosophies are uselessness, not protective. Reality corroborates the Commands spoken to and given to Moses from above, not the self-imposed traditions and moral standards that people place upon themselves, from the workings of their own minds.
Mercurite
Would you want a boss who decided to write a book discriminating against christians?
He's free to do so and I'm free to quit. I don't have to work for someone whose ideals—sense of right and wrong, and vision for what they want to establish in the world—I do not agree with. I don't have to associate/yoke myself to a project/enterprise that is directly working against YHWH's Commands, Design, and purpose for His creation.
Mercurite
It's perfectly reasonable that he was fired.
[...]
His removal from the position of fire chief was politically and morally correct.
Again, "reasonable" and "morally-correct" according to whose standards? Clearly, not based on the body of fundamental principles of the gentile government that this man is in, nor to the standards of this man's God.
If you're referring to "the separation of church and state"—a phrase that is not in the constitution, but that people use in their interpretations of the constitution—even then, the concept refers to the government not establishing one official religion as the state religion. That does not prohibit individuals from expressing their religious beliefs, having moral standards based on the Bible and serving in govt simultaneously, and does not prohibit freely exercising what the religion/God requires of them. Though arguably, the first amendment is a bit self-defeating.
Mercurite
Ways he could have avoided being fired are as follows;
Maintaining a job, or not, is not the point. What makes this newsworthy is that it exposes the hypocrisy (and incompetence) of the "tolerance" philosophy. And further glorifies the Law of YHWH even more: the only thing that makes sense and leads to stability and unity, is having one standard, not multiple belief systems coexisting; thus why YHWH's Law says to get rid of anything that deviates from His absolute standard (if it [or the person] cannot be corrected / fixed). People have to borrow from His View ("annihilate / render powerless all other beliefs") to make sense of what they do, even when these very same people refuse to submit under Him.
And this news story glorifies Jesus' words (He told us that we will have to risk our life and livelihood because of Him. We risk everything, even the acceptance of our own family, and our own countrymen, by following the Biblical Jesus of Nazareth):
Matthew 10:17-18 (NIV)
17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.
Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV)
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Luke 14:26-27 (NIV)
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Luke 21:17 (NIV)
17 Everyone will hate you because of me.
We have nothing to gain from the world (nothing but hate), and everything to lose, by proclaiming His message—as is, no additions, no subtractions. But because His message is the truth, what truly safeguard's people minds, hearts, and bodies, and the rest of YHWH's creation, we find it a price worth paying. We're voluntarily offering ourselves to be the people's lightning rod of hate (and they are the lightning who strike us). People are going to hate us, distort what we say, insult us, beat us, ridicule us, and totally malign the intention of YHWH's Commands. But we will continue defend His Word / His protective instructions. Anyone who has not sincerely taken the time to realize that this is what Jesus calls them to do, following His example, being on the receiving end of such hatred, and responding with blessing and truth in response, should not be calling themselves a Christian.
This man probably did expect the reaction he received (getting fired). But if he didn't, then he's not too informed about what Jesus said would happen.
Mercurite
[...] insulting members of our community who are pretty much the same race as we are
Being of the human race does not mean we stop speaking the truth, even if it's offensive to many of our own kind. Jesus did this, and so do we (those who follow in His example).
John 6:61 (NIV)
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
Excuse me, but his beliefs were not personal. It is considered public if you decide to write a book and publish it for everyone's eyes.
Who says beliefs should be kept secret (how you're using the word "personal" in contrast to "public")...? Religion affects how you think, speak, act, interact with everyone else, what you eat, how you dress, etc; and if he wants to publish a book for others to read and to share his beliefs, how is that morally wrong? according to whose standards/definitions of right and wrong?
The government's sense of right and wrong? Considering he's in the USA, the free exercise of religion means you can practice everything that your religion requires of you (amongst that being the religion's requirement to share their beliefs, the gospel, and the Commands of YHWH) and freedom of speech means that you can freely speak what you want.
Quote Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
So, his actions are not wrong according to the government's sense of right and wrong.
or YHWH's sense of right and wrong? Clearly, in YHWH's eyes, he's doing nothing wrong for speaking what YHWH Commands (thus agreeing with his God).
or an atheist's sense of right and wrong? why should an atheist's opinion affect the free exercise of religion of someone else?
Your statement has no basis to stand on: based on whose standards of right and wrong is this morally incorrect? and why should we submit to yours or someone else's?
I don't think you've realized this: but moral judgments / moral standards exist whether one is religious or irreligious. And the government will be imposing somebody's sense of right and wrong on someone else—by virtue of being government and imposing laws. Unless there's a higher authority, beyond human, to decide which moral standard is to be submitted to, people do not have a basis for why to impose their own moral standards on others. But they do it anyway, don't they? Because reality agrees: moral standards need to be imposed on others.
However, that's not to say that there's no absolute standard of truth. And the standards that conform to reality are YHWH's Commands: you should not kill unlawfully (there is a time to kill: e.g. premeditated murderers / serial killers who have no intention of stopping); failing to adhere to YHWH's Commands concenring this results in injustice, bodily and emotional misuse, does not alleviate the conscience of the blameless, nor protect the blameless. We should not commit adultery / cheat on our spouse, bodily or emotionally, because it causes physical and emotional detriment, and violates trust between your spouse. You should not be sexually immoral because of how it affects bodily organs, the digestive system [which starts in the mouth and ends at the a**s and urethra], etc...thus failing to honor the function YHWH created our organs to have.
In contrast, religious standards that people impose upon themselves, that do not come from YHWH, such as: which shoe to tie on first, not to mix any and all dairy with any and all meat, that you have to eat everything strained through a cloth, and that we should refrain from capitally killing anyone, even the premeditatedly guilty, etc...all of those ideas/philosophies are uselessness, not protective. Reality corroborates the Commands spoken to and given to Moses from above, not the self-imposed traditions and moral standards that people place upon themselves, from the workings of their own minds.
Mercurite
Would you want a boss who decided to write a book discriminating against christians?
He's free to do so and I'm free to quit. I don't have to work for someone whose ideals—sense of right and wrong, and vision for what they want to establish in the world—I do not agree with. I don't have to associate/yoke myself to a project/enterprise that is directly working against YHWH's Commands, Design, and purpose for His creation.
Mercurite
It's perfectly reasonable that he was fired.
[...]
His removal from the position of fire chief was politically and morally correct.
Again, "reasonable" and "morally-correct" according to whose standards? Clearly, not based on the body of fundamental principles of the gentile government that this man is in, nor to the standards of this man's God.
If you're referring to "the separation of church and state"—a phrase that is not in the constitution, but that people use in their interpretations of the constitution—even then, the concept refers to the government not establishing one official religion as the state religion. That does not prohibit individuals from expressing their religious beliefs, having moral standards based on the BIible and serving in govt simultaneously, and does not prohibit freely exercising what the religion/God requires of them. Though arguably, the first amendment is a bit self-defeating.
Mercurite
Ways he could have avoided being fired are as follows;
Maintaining a job, or not, is not the point. What makes this newsworthy is that it exposes the hypocrisy (and incompetence) of the "tolerance" philosophy. And further glorifies that Law of YHWH even more: the only thing that makes sense and leads to stability and unity, is having one standard, not multiple belief systems coexisting; thus why YHWH's Law says to get rid of anything that deviates from His absolute standard (if it [or the person] cannot be corrected / fixed). People have to borrow from His View ("annihilate / render powerless all other beliefs") to make sense of what they do, even when these very same people refuse to submit under Him.
And this news story glorifies Jesus' words (He told us that we will have to risk our life and livelihood because of Him. We risk everything, even the acceptance of our own family, and our own countrymen, by following the Biblical Jesus of Nazareth):
Matthew 10:17-18 (NIV)
17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.
Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV)
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Luke 14:26-27 (NIV)
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Luke 21:17 (NIV)
17 Everyone will hate you because of me.
We have nothing to gain from the world (nothing but hate), and everything to lose, by proclaiming His message—as is, no additions, no subtractions. But because His message is the truth, what truly safeguard's people minds, hearts, and bodies, and the rest of YHWH's creation, we find it a price worth paying. We're voluntarily offering ourselves to be the people's lightning rod of hate (and they are the lightning who strike us). People are going to hate us, distort what we say, insult us, beat us, ridicule us, and totally malign the intention of YHWH's Commands. But we will continue defend His Word / His protective instructions. Anyone who has not sincerely taken the time to realize that this is what Jesus calls them to do, following His example, being on the receiving end of such hatred, and responding with blessing and truth in response, should not be calling themselves a Christian.
This man probably did expect the reaction he received (getting fired). But if he didn't, then he's not too informed about what Jesus said would happen.
Mercurite
[...] insulting members of our community who are pretty much the same race as we are
Being of the human race does not mean we stop speaking the truth, even if it's offensive to many of our own kind. Jesus did this, and so do we (those who follow in His example).
John 6:61 (NIV)
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
He was not wrong to write a book on his beliefs. He was wrong to publicly discriminate against gays. I have not understood why such things as gay parades were needed until I saw this post. As another human being, I understand why the fact someone spoke against gays in a book caused that someone to get fired.
If I wrote a book about devil worship, and my boss read it, he would fire me because he is a normal god-fearing Christian, and where that isn't bad, the views are biased and almost impossible to argue against as all Christians do is quote the bible at you.
*edit And where on earth does the truth come into this? Are you saying the truth is that gays are bad and that you agree with that sentiment?
‘Despite my respect for Chief Cochran’s service, I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force,’ Mr. Reed said. ‘Every single employee under the fire chief’s command deserves the certainty that he or she is a valued member of the team and that fairness and respect guide employment decisions.'” This entire reason is why he was fired. I assume that one or more of the employees were gay. You, as a boss, are NOT allowed to discriminate and 'bully' the people in your workplace. You are meant to be an example, and running around glaring at gays is not only extremely rude & unprofessional, it also won't fly with any workplace. My second guess is he was also pushing his religion and harassing the man or woman he assumed to be gay into coming to church, which is equally wrong. The fire chief could have been a hostile Christian {I have met at least seven of those in my life} and treated his employee like s**t. Not being Christian myself, I can see from the other perspective, and despite what some believe, some Christians are not good. You guys are assuming he's an innocent little angel, when he could possibly not be. I'm not saying he isn't, but everyone has dirty laundry, no matter how much faith they have in the skyguy.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:39 pm
edited to add 2 Timothy 4:2 & Matthew 28:19-20
Mercurite
If I wrote a book about devil worship, and my boss read it, he would fire me because he is a normal god-fearing Christian
In your hypothetical scenario, your Christian boss would only fire you if the business required you to believe the Bible as truth and teach Biblical truth. Expressing disbelief in the Bible and following the nature and beliefs of Satan instead is counterproductive to what the organization is trying to do. Thus, your firing. But I don't see how a Satanist, La Veyan or otherwise, would enjoy working under such a company that directly goes against their beliefs.
In contrast, Cochran was the chief of Atlanta’s Fire Rescue Department. His views on what is sin or is not, have nothing to do with his ability to put out fires, hire people to put out fires, supervise those people, and administer rescue and medical response services. As a Christian we're called to save sinners. His beliefs do not impede physically saving lives (along with spiritually saving lives). He's going to do both. We're called to save homosexuals, in more ways than one. Is your fear that he won't hire a homosexual, that he won't save a homosexual? Then you have not understood the ministry of reconciliation in Christ, that we're called to save sinners, and reconcile them to the Father, tell them about the New Birth so that they can put their sinful nature, that we're all born with, to death and don't have to suffer at the hands of God.
Mercurite
[...]almost impossible to argue against as all Christians do is quote the bible at you.
Like I explained in my PM's to you, Christians submit to Scripture as the authoritative historical truth. Do not expect them to compromise on the truth if the God of the Bible is who they truly serve.
Galatians 1:10 (NIV)
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NIV)
2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
Mercurite
*edit And where on earth does the truth come into this? Are you saying the truth is that gays are bad and that you agree with that sentiment?
The truth comes into this because Christians are called to walk in the truth and speak the truth. Regardless of who our earthly boss is.
John 17:17 (NIV)
17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth.
Footnotes:
a. John 17:17 Or them to live in accordance with
Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Sexually desiring the same sex is a sin (a breaking of YHWH's Commands), yes. Just like the desire to commit adultery (the desire to cheat on your spouse), the desire to have sex with an animal, or the desire to have sex with children (the not-sexually-mature).
Sexually lusting after the same-sex is called "shameful lusts".
Romans 1:26-27 (NIV)
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
And everyone—regardless of which sin(s) manifests in their flesh and mind—is suppose to turn away from sin (the breaking of our Creator's Commands), crucify to death those sinful desires in their flesh that they were born with, through the power of the Holy Spirit, and only behave in the Way our Creator approved.
Psalm 51:5 (NIV)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Ephesians 4:22-24 (NIV)
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient
Romans 12:1-2 (NIV)
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Psalm 40:8 (NIV)
8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.”
Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Ezekiel 36:27 (NIV)
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Unless one genuinely trusts in Christ and in His teachings, then one won't desire to obey and can't obey—in Spirit and in Truth—what His Commands say to do or not do. They won't see the love behind everything He ever Commanded without that trust in Christ and turning away from sin.
Mercurite
‘Despite my respect for Chief Cochran’s service, I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force,’ Mr. Reed said. ‘Every single employee under the fire chief’s command deserves the certainty that he or she is a valued member of the team and that fairness and respect guide employment decisions.'” This entire reason is why he was fired. I assume that one or more of the employees were gay. You, as a boss, are NOT allowed to discriminate and 'bully' the people in your workplace. You are meant to be an example, and running around glaring at gays is not only extremely rude & unprofessional, it also won't fly with any workplace.
First of all, that contradicts his statements that his decision to fire had nothing to do with the man's religious beliefs. “At a news conference, Mr. Reed said that Mr. Cochran’s ‘personal religious beliefs are not the issue.’ [...] Clearly, they are the issue, because his beliefs are Biblical. Same sex lusts are sin, shameful, like the Bible says. He might as well have quoted the Bible and gotten fired.
Secondly, as the article goes on to say, "The story has been widely reported in the national press, and no accusation that Chief Cochran had acted in a discriminatory fashion toward any department employee has yet been asserted."
He's not "running around glaring at people". He merely agreed, in writing, with what YHWH and His Word says. And he has not treated anyone in a discriminatory fashion.
Mercurite
My second guess is he was also pushing his religion and harassing the man or woman he assumed to be gay into coming to church, which is equally wrong.
One, you're assuming, not arriving at a verdict based on the evidence. That's unjust on your part. So, you're baselessly hating on the man.
Secondly, the notion that, "it's wrong to share your beliefs with others", again, according to whose standards of right and wrong? Obviously, people who believe in what the Bible says as right and wrong, do not agree that "sharing the gospel with others", "initiating conversation for that very act of sharing knowledge about YHWH, or to get the other to turn away from their sins" is wrong; they're commanded to do so, so they wouldn't view it as wrong. And if a person refuses the message, then we leave them be, in the spirit of what Jesus commanded here:
Matthew 10:14 (NIV)
14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
You leave them alone. (Context: Jesus was sending out disciples by two's to different cities and homes.)
With people who join themselves into the Church, ultimately same conclusion, we leave them be, but getting them to stop sinning is met with more persistence, because they're walking around in Christ's Name and/or in the Church, which could mislead other people about what both the Father and Son commanded:
Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35. b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.
Mercurite
The fire chief could have been a hostile Christian {I have met at least seven of those in my life} and treated his employee like s**t. Not being Christian myself, I can see from the other perspective, and despite what some believe, some Christians are not good. You guys are assuming he's an innocent little angel, when he could possibly not be. I'm not saying he isn't, but everyone has dirty laundry, no matter how much faith they have in the skyguy.
I'm aware that there exists disobedient Christians. Shame on the article for misleading about what the issue truly is if that is the case. However, based on what was presented as facts in the article, and the mayor's own words (the mayor being the one who fired the fire chief), the quotations of the man's writing is what led to his sacking. Not how he treated people at work.
Quote: In November, announcing the Chief’s suspension without pay, Mayor Reed said that Chief Cochran’s views as expressed in the book were inconsistent with the city’s policies on discrimination. Note, as The Atlanta Journal-Constitution made clear, the mayor’s concern was the chief’s views on homosexuality.
If I wrote a book about devil worship, and my boss read it, he would fire me because he is a normal god-fearing Christian
In your hypothetical scenario, your Christian boss would only fire you if the business required you to believe the Bible as truth and teach Biblical truth. Expressing disbelief in the Bible and following the nature and beliefs of Satan instead is counterproductive to what the organization is trying to do. Thus, your firing. But I don't see how a Satanist, La Veyan or otherwise, would enjoy working under such a company that directly goes against their beliefs.
In contrast, Cochran was the chief of Atlanta’s Fire Rescue Department. His views on what is sin or is not, have nothing to do with his ability to put out fires, hire people to put out fires, supervise those people, and administer rescue and medical response services. As a Christian we're called to save sinners. His beliefs do not impede physically saving lives (along with spiritually saving lives). He's going to do both. We're called to save homosexuals, in more ways than one. Is your fear that he won't hire a homosexual, that he won't save a homosexual? Then you have not understood the ministry of reconciliation in Christ, that we're called to save sinners, and reconcile them to the Father, tell them about the New Birth so that they can put their sinful nature, that we're all born with, to death and don't have to suffer at the hands of God.
Mercurite
[...]almost impossible to argue against as all Christians do is quote the bible at you.
Like I explained in my PM's to you, Christians submit to Scripture as the authoritative historical truth. Do not expect them to compromise on the truth if the God of the Bible is who they truly serve.
Galatians 1:10 (NIV)
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NIV)
2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
Mercurite
*edit And where on earth does the truth come into this? Are you saying the truth is that gays are bad and that you agree with that sentiment?
The truth comes into this because Christians are called to walk in the truth and speak the truth. Regardless of who our earthly boss is.
John 17:17 (NIV)
17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth.
Footnotes:
a. John 17:17 Or them to live in accordance with
Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Sexually desiring the same sex is a sin (a breaking of YHWH's Commands), yes. Just like the desire to commit adultery (the desire to cheat on your spouse), the desire to have sex with an animal, or the desire to have sex with children (the not-sexually-mature).
Sexually lusting after the same-sex is called "shameful lusts".
Romans 1:26-27 (NIV)
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
And everyone—regardless of which sin(s) manifests in their flesh and mind—is suppose to turn away from sin (the breaking of our Creator's Commands), crucify to death those sinful desires in their flesh that they were born with, through the power of the Holy Spirit, and only behave in the Way our Creator approved.
Psalm 51:5 (NIV)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Ephesians 4:22-24 (NIV)
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Footnotes:
a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient
Romans 12:1-2 (NIV)
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Psalm 40:8 (NIV)
8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.”
Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Ezekiel 36:27 (NIV)
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Unless one genuinely trusts in Christ and in His teachings, then one won't desire to obey and can't obey—in Spirit and in Truth—what His Commands say to do or not do. They won't see the love behind everything He ever Commanded without that trust in Christ and turning away from sin.
Mercurite
‘Despite my respect for Chief Cochran’s service, I believe his actions and decision-making undermine his ability to effectively manage a large, diverse work force,’ Mr. Reed said. ‘Every single employee under the fire chief’s command deserves the certainty that he or she is a valued member of the team and that fairness and respect guide employment decisions.'” This entire reason is why he was fired. I assume that one or more of the employees were gay. You, as a boss, are NOT allowed to discriminate and 'bully' the people in your workplace. You are meant to be an example, and running around glaring at gays is not only extremely rude & unprofessional, it also won't fly with any workplace.
First of all, that contradicts his statements that his decision to fire had nothing to do with the man's religious beliefs. “At a news conference, Mr. Reed said that Mr. Cochran’s ‘personal religious beliefs are not the issue.’ [...] Clearly, they are the issue, because his beliefs are Biblical. Same sex lusts are sin, shameful, like the Bible says. He might as well have quoted the Bible and gotten fired.
Secondly, as the article goes on to say, "The story has been widely reported in the national press, and no accusation that Chief Cochran had acted in a discriminatory fashion toward any department employee has yet been asserted."
He's not "running around glaring at people". He merely agreed, in writing, with what YHWH and His Word says. And he has not treated anyone in a discriminatory fashion.
Mercurite
My second guess is he was also pushing his religion and harassing the man or woman he assumed to be gay into coming to church, which is equally wrong.
One, you're assuming, not arriving at a verdict based on the evidence. That's unjust on your part. So, you're baselessly hating on the man.
Secondly, the notion that, "it's wrong to share your beliefs with others", again, according to whose standards of right and wrong? Obviously, people who believe in what the Bible says as right and wrong, do not agree that "sharing the gospel with others", "initiating conversation for that very act of sharing knowledge about YHWH, or to get the other to turn away from their sins" is wrong; they're commanded to do so, so they wouldn't view it as wrong. And if a person refuses the message, then we leave them be, in the spirit of what Jesus commanded here:
Matthew 10:14 (NIV)
14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
You leave them alone. (Context: Jesus was sending out disciples by two's to different cities and homes.)
With people who join themselves into the Church, ultimately same conclusion, we leave them be, but getting them to stop sinning is met with more persistence, because they're walking around in Christ's Name and/or in the Church, which could mislead other people about what both the Father and Son commanded:
Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35. b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.
Mercurite
The fire chief could have been a hostile Christian {I have met at least seven of those in my life} and treated his employee like s**t. Not being Christian myself, I can see from the other perspective, and despite what some believe, some Christians are not good. You guys are assuming he's an innocent little angel, when he could possibly not be. I'm not saying he isn't, but everyone has dirty laundry, no matter how much faith they have in the skyguy.
I'm aware that there exist disobedient Christians. Shame on the article for misleading about what the issue truly is if that is the case. However, based on what was presented as facts in the article, and the mayor's own words (the mayor being the one who fired the fire chief), the quotations of the man's writing is what led to his sacking. Not how he treated people at work.
Quote: In November, announcing the Chief’s suspension without pay, Mayor Reed said that Chief Cochran’s views as expressed in the book were inconsistent with the city’s policies on discrimination. Note, as The Atlanta Journal-Constitution made clear, the mayor’s concern was the chief’s views on homosexuality.
+ okay so you're basically saying that it had nothing to do with his book or religious views and you're saying it does have something to do with his book or religious views. that's what I'm getting from this If it has something to do with his discrimination against gays then yes I believe that he and everyone who follows that view should be fired, for gays are not lesser beings. I don't care if it's against God's will because A) I'm rebellious and well Maybe God wants people to hate you one of those stupid 'trials of faith' thing. Christianity is a cult. Satanism is a cult. Muslims are a cult. Santa Claus clearly is a demonic creature whom delivers presents to little girls and boys and is a cult! ^ That one cracks me up
Halloween is devil worship! ^ Great, because um no, it's not The entire thing was created to hide people from demons and monstrousities on the most haunted night of the year to blend in and save themselves from getting their guts ripped out.
The most ridiculous notions come from Christians, as some believe that they are more 'merciful' or 'prone to good will' than others.
Everyone shits the same. Everyone stuffs their face with food. Everyone copulates in the exact same way.
In the end, Christianity is an army with thousands of faceless drones marching to the same beats of the drum and when some Christian gets fired for discriminating against gays, all of the Christians go 'aww' and go back to whatever they're doing.
When a gay, a minority, is discriminated against, they all stand together for their beliefs and go 'screw you.'
The problem with majorities is that they can't find the time to care beyond saying 'aww', and that's what upsets me the most about this post. Everyone is saying 'aww', and nobody is supporting the person who was directly affected. In paganism, the only religion in which I'd ever even close to put my faith in besides levayan satanism, you can make a wish. However, it's not up to the gods to fufil that wish. You have to go the full way, and they'll support you, but they won't grant your wish for you. Same with god. He won't grant your wish for you. As someone who is practiced in several pagan rituals, {Real witchcraft, as you're not a real witch if you bring harm to anything, be it animal or man} I believe in God because the pagan way states that we must not disbelieve in other religions. God is out there, but he sure as hell isn't wasting time on sorting prayers. You want something done? Do it yourself. Don't thank God when something good happens to you. That's mostly your doing, and you should pat yourself on the back for that. You can thank him every now and then, thank him for protecting you and being on your shoulder and giving you advice when you ask {I've done that frequently, except with several different gods} but never give him the full credit for something that you fought through or did yourself.
And honestly, above all, practice which religion makes you happy, and if that's Christianity, then go ahead and do so. I applaud you for your faith, and I appreciate that you love your god so much that you'd probably blindly go to war for him. I'm the type to always question, so I could never put my faith below a creature that requests complete dominance over me. I'm a free spirit, and I will do as I will, even if it means arguing about religion.
It's just the prospect that I feel as if someone truly cared, they would attempt to do something besides pray for the man.
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:35 pm
edited
Mercurite
+ okay so you're basically saying that it had nothing to do with his book or religious views and you're saying it does have something to do with his book or religious views. that's what I'm getting from this
I've been consistently saying, as has the article, that this had to do with the man's religious views. You asserted he was fired because of how he treated others at work, despite the article and the words of the mayor himself, stating otherwise (that it was about what he wrote). And I was correcting you: that this has to do with his beliefs, not his actions at work. If you're skimming, then slow down, because you're not grasping what's being said.
Mercurite
If it has something to do with his discrimination against gays then yes I believe that he and everyone who follows that view should be fired, for gays are not lesser beings.
No one has treated gays as lesser beings, nor said that they were, especially when what the Bible asserts is that we are born in sin—though some have a predisposition for certain sins that others don't—and that we must all be born-again, given a new nature in Christ, by the Living Word of God, putting our old earthly nature with its misdeeds to death through the power of the Holy Spirit. Gays are equally in sin and deviated from the original design as anyone else.
John 3:3 (NIV)
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
Footnotes:
a. John 3:3 The Greek for again also means from above; also in verse 7.
1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
If you actually loved your neighbor, if you actually cared about them, then you would warn them—in some way, shape, or form—to turn away from their sin / their breaking of YHWH's Commands, because those Commands guard their well-being and keep them safe from God's wrath.
Mercurite
I don't care if it's against God's will because A) I'm rebellious and well Maybe God wants people to hate you one of those stupid 'trials of faith' thing.
Whether you care or not, my purpose in bringing this up is to make you understand that it matters whose moral standard we submit to because that is what defines right and wrong.
I'm aware this is a trial. This is how our loyalty to YHWH is proven: when it gets uncomfortable, hurtful, and risky, when we are maligned and mischaracterized by others, and our words twisted, but we still side with Him and not let the behavior of others determine our reaction. This is assuming we haven't sinned (because at that point the suffering is meant to serve as discipline and correction).
However that doesn't justify the behavior of the one being used to test us or punish us. For example, YHWH will use all nations to punish Jerusalem, but then YHWH will fight against all those who come against Jerusalem for their evil (Commandment-breaking) as well.
Zechariah 14:2-3 (NIV)
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.
Mercurite
Christianity is a cult. Satanism is a cult. Muslims are a cult.
Like I said, by the world's definition of cult, yes, all of the above are called cults by the world. In regards to Christianity, how Christians define a cult, a cult would be a Christian religion that deviates from Biblical doctrine. Though the Bible itself doesn't use the word "cult", so it's something Christians are taking upon themselves to define differently from the world. The Bible is just concerned about distinguishing a false belief from the truth.
Mercurite
Santa Claus clearly is a demonic creature whom delivers presents to little girls and boys and is a cult! ^ That one cracks me up
I think it would be more accurate to call this a myth (this isn't a system of religious veneration—as the world defines "cult"—but a myth).
Biblically,
1 Timothy 4:7 (NIV)
7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
2 Peter 1:16 (NIV)
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
We're not to participate in myths and old wives' tales. We're not to honor false ideas if we walk in the Way, the Truth and the Life. Otherwise that tarnishes our reputation as people who bear truthful witness in other areas of our lives, such as in the testimony of Jesus Christ, who is not a cleverly devised story, but the written account of eye witnesses.
Mercurite
Halloween is devil worship! ^ Great, because um no, it's not The entire thing was created to hide people from demons and monstrousities on the most haunted night of the year to blend in and save themselves from getting their guts ripped out.
Halloween is based on Celtic belief that on one night every year, the division between the realm of the dead and the living is thinnest and spirits can cross over. By our participation in such an event, we honor this belief system and their view of the afterlife. Ergo, no Christian who is obedient to the Commands of God, and the revelation the Bible documents about dead souls and demons, would participate in Halloween because YHWH does not allow us to honor other belief systems / other spirits alongside Him...
Exodus 20:3 (NIV)
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
Footnotes:
a. Exodus 20:3 Or besides
...nor honor lies about the reality of demons. They're not stuck in an underworld. They live alongside us.
Matthew 12:43-45 (NIV)
43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
Even when the demon comes out of a person, they don't go to some realm of the dead. The demons are not going anywhere until Christ judges the living and the dead. They're on earth. Not coming on earth once a year, every year.
Matthew 8:28-29 (NIV)
28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 8:28 Some manuscripts Gergesenes; other manuscripts Gerasenes
If we're speaking against their beliefs, then we cannot be participating in those events that honor their beliefs. That would be hypocritical. It doesn't matter what significance the pagans give their religion (that "we're hiding from demons"); it's a false belief. You don't hide from demons because of something you wear. They are spirits. They're not fooled by that. If they can see the future (thus are able to divine things for you, like in the case of the possessed girl in Acts 16:16), then they can see beyond your material mask.
Acts 16:16-18 (NIV)
16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
Same with this false notion: "It's white magic; it's okay to do". No, you're not deriving this power out of yourself. It's coming from a spirit who is not YHWH—and it's not YHWH because He disagrees with casting spells and fortune-telling, trying to peek into your own future instead of Him coming to you with a vision that you did not solicit; YHWH does not agree with carrying out your own will (what spellwork is), or prayer by repetitious chants. We pray in accordance to His will, and to alleviate our anxiety-ridden inner-being, knowing that He has heard our cares, and will be in charge of the situation regardless of what He decides is best. In essence, we are invoking His involvement in the situation, and letting Him decide what to do that would result in what is most beneficial for all parties involved, even people whom we don't even know but who would be affected.
Luke 22:42 (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
Matthew 6:7-8 (NIV)
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
What the pagans (and disobedient Christians) give honor to are false beliefs, false ways of praying, and useless practices (if not also detrimental, like lacerating yourself to get the attention of your god e.g. as is done in Baal worship 1 Kings 18:26-29—ergo not just useless, but is comprising your immune system for disobeying YHWH / being obedient to the practices of those other gods/spirits/beliefs and to what they don't prohibit).
To participate in Halloween would mislead others about the distinction between YHWH and the beliefs of the world. YHWH is not in support of the practices of the pagans, He does not share their view of the afterlife / does not agree with their view of what spirits of the departed are able to do, out of their own free will, in death. Nor their view on demons.
If not self-derived, then their thoughts and practices are done in honor of a demonic spirit or thought that came from that demonic spirit.
1 Corinthians 10:19-21 (NIV)
19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
We follow only what YHWH says, not the practices that give honor to the deception of demons or to the doctrines of demons (which is easy to distinguish from YHWH's doctrine once you compare what they say to the Commands of YHWH; demons don't agree with YHWH's Commands, what they say and the spirit of what they say. For example, they will leave you in sexual immorality to your own demise, whereas YHWH warns you so that you don't get hurt by those practices).
Mercurite
The most ridiculous notions come from Christians, as some believe that they are more 'merciful' or 'prone to good will' than others.
There have been times when the Israelites (the people set-apart to YHWH, ergo the set-apart community of believers) were even worse than their surrounding gentile neighbors...
Ezekiel 5:5-7 (NIV)
5 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her. 6 Yet in her wickedness she has rebelled against my laws and decrees more than the nations and countries around her. She has rejected my laws and has not followed my decrees.
7 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even[a] conformed to the standards of the nations around you.
Footnotes:
a. Ezekiel 5:7 Most Hebrew manuscripts; some Hebrew manuscripts and Syriac You have
So anyone making such a claim (that they are more 'merciful' or 'prone to good will' than others) is ignorant of Scripture / history.
But by saying this, you're airing out your grievances against other Christians that you've come across in the past, which has nothing to do with me nor this article.
Mercurite
Everyone shits the same. Everyone stuffs their face with food. Everyone copulates in the exact same way.
No, not everyone has sex the same way. Especially homosexuals / or having sex in homosexual ways (meaning, in ways that do not require both sexes to come together, and the interconnection of their opposite sex organs), or in other sexually immoral ways as defined by YHWH in His Commands (with animals, or what have you)—by definition they must use their bodily organs in ways YHWH did not intend for them to be used (for instance, the mouth and a**s being penetrated by, or coming into contact with, sexual organs and the bacteria in them).
The only thing that human men should be penetrating during sex is the v****a (which males do not have; only females have), and the v****a penetrated by a man's p***s. That is what sex was meant for; the sexual reproductive organs. To suggest everyone has sex in the same way shows unawareness of the Laws of YHWH concerning sexual relations (Leviticus 18). Those Commands exist because people did not have sex in the same Way.
And just because it is possible to do something, does not mean it was meant to be used in that way. Someone can sexually-gratify themselves by rubbing up against a laundry basket. That's not what the laundry basket was created for, nor were one's sexual organs created for the laundry basket. But just because sexual stimulation can be achieved, does not make the act right nor means that they're using creation right.
Mercurite
In the end, Christianity is an army with thousands of faceless drones marching to the same beats of the drum and when some Christian gets fired for discriminating against gays, all of the Christians go 'aww' and go back to whatever they're doing.
This is a baseless assertion. The fact that somebody bothered to write an article about it, showing support of him during his unjust treatment, agreeing that it was unjust, and bringing attention to it, suggests more than just mere "aww & continue on". Nor do we have evidence to suggest that the surrounding Christians of his congregation did not band together in support, or that his family didn't.
Mercurite
When a gay, a minority, is discriminated against, they all stand together for their beliefs and go 'screw you.'
You shouldn't speak in absolutes. All stand together? Obviously not.
When the world said gays were being discriminated against because a Christian bakery refused to bake them a cake for their gay wedding, not all gays stood together—some defended the Christians, some turned back on the gay minority stance [Gay Activist Changes Position, Defends Christian Baker Who Won't Use Gay Slogans on Cakes], and, though I can't recall the specific video at this time, I've read comments under said video from gay individuals disagreeing with the allegations of discrimination made against Christians because, if the tables were turned, they wouldn't like it if they had a bakery and were asked by a Christian to bake a cake expressing disagreement with the LGBT community.
We cannot talk in absolutes and hypotheticals, as you've been doing, but deal with the reality that we're actually living and witnessing.
Mercurite
The problem with majorities is that they can't find the time to care beyond saying 'aww', and that's what upsets me the most about this post. Everyone is saying 'aww', and nobody is supporting the person who was directly affected.
Again, baseless assertions. What information are you reacting to that suggested to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Christians are not showing support, nor spreading awareness of his cause, nor that his own community, church, and/or family isn't helping him meet his needs if it's that dire?
Mercurite
In paganism, the only religion in which I'd ever even close to put my faith in besides levayan satanism, you can make a wish. However, it's not up to the gods to fufil that wish. You have to go the full way, and they'll support you, but they won't grant your wish for you. Same with god. He won't grant your wish for you. As someone who is practiced in several pagan rituals, {Real witchcraft, as you're not a real witch if you bring harm to anything, be it animal or man} I believe in God because the pagan way states that we must not disbelieve in other religions. God is out there, but he sure as hell isn't wasting time on sorting prayers. You want something done? Do it yourself. Don't thank God when something good happens to you. That's mostly your doing, and you should pat yourself on the back for that. You can thank him every now and then, thank him for protecting you and being on your shoulder and giving you advice when you ask {I've done that frequently, except with several different gods} but never give him the full credit for something that you fought through or did yourself.
Well, here is where we'll disagree. Even when we fight the battle, if YHWH didn't want us to win, He would have prevented it, no matter how well-skilled, proficient, allied, well-equipped, and outnumbering the enemy we could have been.
Psalm 20:7 (NIV)
7 Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.
2 Chronicles 24:24 (NIV)
24 Although the Aramean army had come with only a few men, the Lord delivered into their hands a much larger army. Because Judah had forsaken the Lord, the God of their ancestors, judgment was executed on Joash.
2 Kings 7:5-7 (NIV)
5 At dusk they got up and went to the camp of the Arameans. When they reached the edge of the camp, no one was there, 6 for the Lord had caused the Arameans to hear the sound of chariots and horses and a great army, so that they said to one another, “Look, the king of Israel has hired the Hittite and Egyptian kings to attack us!” 7 So they got up and fled in the dusk and abandoned their tents and their horses and donkeys. They left the camp as it was and ran for their lives.
So, when go out to battle, we must thank God. He is Sovereign over everything and everyone, even our enemies, and willing to give victory to our enemies if we have sinned, or make our enemies take off in panic/cowardice by making them hear things. YHWH punishes us and allows us to be defeated—even when we have more people on our side—once we forsake His Way / start sinning. He's just/fair. He does not show favoritism. And YHWH is in control of who wins, to carry out His purposes, and discipline whichever nation / group of people He wants to discipline at that time for the way they have been behaving and (mis-)believing, or deliver revelation/testimony of how He acts to a group of people that otherwise would not have realized it. Or put others through testing and refinement of their faith. Though He does forgive when we repent, that doesn't stop Him from rendering vengeance back onto our own heads in repayment of our deeds when we don't repent / turn away from our wicked ways.
Revelation 2:21-23 (NIV)
21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
And in regard to what you said about pagans and their gods, YHWH is above any and all spirits—He's the Most High, the Father of spirits. To worship another is futile. YHWH ultimately gets His way. There's only one Creator and if He has the power / strength to create the universe, and the celestial spirits (such as angels), He has power over everyone else. If anyone helped you, then it was Him.
Psalm 96:5 (NIV)
5 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.
Deuteronomy 10:17 (NIV)
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.
Hebrews 12:9 (NIV)
9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!
Psalm 82:1 (NIV)
A psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:
Genesis 14:19 (NIV)
19 and he blessed Abram, saying,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
Romans 2:9-11 (NIV)
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
And "good" as defined by YHWH (things in accord with His Commands)
Psalm 119:39 (NIV)
39 Take away the disgrace I dread, for your laws are good.
Nehemiah 9:13 (NIV)
13 “You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good.
Romans 7:12 (NIV)
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
When two opposing groups are not walking after good, He gives favor to the lesser evil. And the lesser evil wasn't always Israel (those in Covenant with YHWH), as I already illustrated above (Israel being worse than the neighboring gentile nations, because they did not even submit to the lesser moral standards of the nations, let alone submit to YHWH's superior standards).
Mercurite
And honestly, above all, practice which religion makes you happy, and if that's Christianity, then go ahead and do so. I applaud you for your faith, and I appreciate that you love your god so much that you'd probably blindly go to war for him.
Even though there are women who killed others, and their actions are documented in the Bible (Queen Jezebel and Jael, come to mind), and certain prophetesses aided men of war by giving them divine revelation from YHWH / guiding them on God's will in response to calamity (such as Deborah guiding Barak), women don't actually make up the military / army according to YHWH's Law (for purely physiological reasons; men are stronger, don't menstruate, etc). Only men serve in the army (Numbers 1:3).
But engaging in spiritual warfare, defeating demonic thoughts, and submitting all thoughts to Christ, of course I would. However, there would be nothing blind about it, considering I wasn't raised in the religion, totally ignorant of all other practices. It's something I arrived at after delving into other spiritual beliefs, suffering attacks because of them, and realizing the protection that YHWH's Commands offer, on top of the logical sense / order and complete explanation that His revelation offers that other beliefs do not have.
That said, I'm the kind of person who feels guilty for days after stepping on a lizard by accident and seeing its guts squirt out. But if I saw someone committing a crime worthy of death, I would have to testify against them, even if it led to their conviction and capital punishment. They forfeited their life the moment they committed the sin. It's justice—and justice serves to protect others from falling victim to those perpetrators and deter others from following after their detrimental ways.
Having addressed that, two things.
(1) Happiness depends on your surrounding circumstances. However, even while under persecution, discomfort, calamity and affliction, YHWH provides inner joy throughout those trying times. Happiness shouldn't be a reason to do anything, because it's temporary and fleeting. You go to a concert, you watch a TV show, you're happy in the moment, but it's not lasting. Joy, on the otherhand is everlasting, even when things around us are terrible. We rejoice in the heart. We can get physically beaten up and still be unbroken in our inner-being.
Acts 16:22-25 (NIV)
22 The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten with rods. 23 After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully. 24 When he received these orders, he put them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in the stocks.
25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.
Only YHWH—mankind's Creator—gives that peace; only YHWH is able to sustain us in that way.
John 14:27 (NIV)
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
(2) This is about serving the truth. Even if it makes us uncomfortable, even if we risk our lives (at the hands of our enemies doing us harm), we proclaim what would keep mankind and the rest of creation in proper functioning and well-being. This isn't about what we personally get out of it. This is a service. Just like firefighters who go into the fire to save people. It's not comfortable nor without risk and hurt, but they want to serve others out of love/care for them, to preserve their well-being, yours included, even if you personally hate them.
Mercurite
I'm the type to always question, so I could never put my faith below a creature that requests complete dominance over me. I'm a free spirit, and I will do as I will, even if it means arguing about religion.
You can argue about religion all you like, but coming to know your Creator, reconciling your relationship with Him, and functioning in ways that would not lead to your detriment is the point. The only reason you have a problem with that is because you don't trust the One commanding your loyalty, to have no other lovers/spirits on the side, to be in an intimate relation with Him alone. Until you trust Him, you will not be able to submit to Him and Him alone, because you don't see how those Commands are protecting you and others from bodily and emotional detriment, and how He provides.
It's easy to submit to YHWH once you know Him for who He says He is in His Scriptures. He is the one who warned against the tree that would lead to death (because not everything He created is there for us to eat or ingest, for our own good; it's made for other creatures to consume; we cannot handle being burdened with certain information).
It's nonsensical to trust in Satan, or take on his name, when he is the one who led mankind directly to the tree that would kill them, as a good thing to eat of, and told them the consequences weren't real. He doesn't care about you. YHWH does.
Once you realize YHWH is the one who watches out for your good, and the other spirits are not guarding the well-being of creation and cannot guard their well-being, you easily trust in YHWH. If anyone kept you safe, it was by YHWH's Command / YHWH's allowance alone. And when He doesn't, there is a purpose for the suffering: either to punish you / correct you for your sins or go through a trial to refine your faith or prove it to others—as I thoroughly explained to you in my PM.
In fact, in case you ignored or forgot all those other topics I linked to, and in case this benefits anyone else:
It's just the prospect that I feel as if someone truly cared, they would attempt to do something besides pray for the man.
Nothing in the article leads to that conclusion: that no other Christian has done anything but to pray for the man.
James 2:22 (NIV)
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
What would be senseless, however, is to expect believers—fellow brothers and sisters in the faith—hundreds or thousands of miles away to go to his aid before those in his nearest vicinity.
Proverbs 27:10 (NIV)
10 Do not forsake your friend or a friend of your family, and do not go to your relative’s house when disaster strikes you— better a neighbor nearby than a relative far away.
However, if news got to those who were afar, informing them that those in his nearest vicinity couldn't help him, and it was within their ability to satisfy his need, then they would help too.
Luke 3:11 (NIV)
11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
That's what obedient Christians do. It's what the Bible, the Word of God, says to do. That you want to linger on disobedient Christians, and possible hypothetical scenarios of disobedience, is irrelevant to what the religion and their God actually commands them to do.
And I definitely addressed already in my PM that "waiting", just like in Job's case, is not just prayer and doing nothing, but living in obedience to the Commands as you wait—thus not resorting to sin to get yourself out of the situation either. Obeying the Commands requires action (tells you to care for the poor, render justice, do away with evil, share with those in need when you have extra, etc). Not either/or, but both.
Psalm 119:166 (NIV)
166 I wait for your salvation, Lord, and I follow your commands.
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