Christians & Christian Bashing

[Keistera]

x-Posted from "Durham Pagan Youth" Yahoo Comm. (I posted it there, originally)

This was inspired by a post in the "What Youth Want" thread, so hooold on.

Why is it that Christians are bashed so heavily?
There are fundies in every religion - they exist in the myriad of Pagan paths - and if you name one religion, any religion, the answer will be the same: "Yes, there are Fundamentalists walking that path, too."
So, why the Christians? Are all of them as bad as you seem to believe they are, or are you biased? Are you painting them all with the same brush, based upon an experience with a fundie? Or, are you suffering from "More Persecuted Than Thou" syndrome?

Post your replies, and I will tell you what I think.

---

What inspired it: Some kid complaining about how the Christian books are right across from the Pagan books in Chapters.
stare  

[Atma311]

I believe that Pagans tend to go through a phase of "Christians are all out to get me" and other paranoid phases in the beginning, and some stay that way. Others tend to ACTUALLY have problems and when they complain, they often are thought of as going through this period of feeling persecuted, even if they actually are. It's a big mess, but I think the Pagan community is getting really good at role reversal lately and they can put themselves in others' shoes and see the points of views of others... not ALL Pagans, but more and more. All the people you see on t.v. are the loud-mouths that many Pagans represent the majority of Christians, when really the majority are more secular than anything else in these modern times.

Lately, I've seen a surge in the Pagan community that actually are growing quite intolerant of Christian-bashers and vice-versa in the Christian community toward other religions. It may take time, but I think we're becoming more accepting of each other as time progresses, but we're no where near complete tolerance, let alone acceptance, just yet.  

[Rakei]

I don't bash I simply educate. I do not wish to have intolorant Christians use the Bible against me in anyway shape or form, I can't stand it when christians start telling me I'm going to hell and that they aren't because they haven't sinned Well guess again sin is born from sin and exists in every human, meaning you will never be able to come to heaven. Therfore I do not like this sin thing.
and yes of course there are fundamentalists in every religion one actually exists only with fundamentalists (I'm talking Islam) and Christian fundamentalists might not be a new thing, but now there are more and they think they know all that is.
Why the Christians? Because they seem to be the only religion that gets in our face.

now I have nothing more to say.  

[Atma311]

Rakei

I don't bash I simply educate. I do not wish to have intolorant Christians use the Bible against me in anyway shape or form, I can't stand it when christians start telling me I'm going to hell and that they aren't because they haven't sinned Well guess again sin is born from sin and exists in every human, meaning you will never be able to come to heaven. Therfore I do not like this sin thing.
and yes of course there are fundamentalists in every religion one actually exists only with fundamentalists (I'm talking Islam) and Christian fundamentalists might not be a new thing, but now there are more and they think they know all that is.
Why the Christians? Because they seem to be the only religion that gets in our face.

now I have nothing more to say.

I disagree with the comment about all Islams are fundamentalists. I know a few friends who do practice those paths and they aren't fundamentalists at all. The fact that you've heard constant remarks like that since 9/11 doesn't make them true. This is how intolerance is spread in the first place. The generalizations and harsh (even if joking) comments about others that are "not like me" stick in people's minds and are often accepted as truth. It's the whole "Jews are whiny, Pagans are New Age Hippies, Christians are bossy" garbage that people actually believe after hearing it enough.  

[blukattt]

If we're talking from a strictly pagan veiwpoint, I blame the authors of today's pagan literature.

Yes the Burning Times happened; yes, it's very sad; yes, it makes me mad. But what people don't seem to question: How many people died during it that weren't even pagan?

Another fault I place in the laps of many of today's pagan authors, is that they are portraying themselves to be just as anti-semetic as the christians that they are persecuting. *coughSRWcough*

Personally, I embrace all religions; there's something to be learned from all of them, and perhaps Diety wants different ways to worship, has anybody thought of that?  

[Jameta]

I think another reason why Christians are targeted is because 1.) the Church has hoenstly made major persecution mistakes before, and 2.) there are a lot of Christians, so in a concious/subconcious way, it's a poor attempt to make one "unique".

I loathe anyone that has a narrowmind, and because such individuals have a narrowmind, they tend to not want to be educated/reinformed. So online, I take my aggressions of the day out on them with a brilliant blaze of well-structured sentences and vocabulary that makes English teachers proud. biggrin  

[Quadadiddle]

I can always count on blu for a good smash on Silver Ravenfluff.

I don't bash christians, I merely pull out a wiccan book I usually keep in my bookcase and tell them to read it, then tell me why I'm going to hell 3nodding  

[Keistera]

About the "Burning Times" thing: What really bugs me is how people try to stretch how many were killed. "Remember the 9 million witches that died during the persecution of the burning times!" ... 9 million? ... No. It looks more like 100,000 -- and, far as I know, they weren't witches (as in Wiccans, the way "Uncle Gerald" refers to them). . . they were innocent Christians.

On topic:

I believe the major flaw in the Pagan community is the tendency to "blame the meanie Xians". Now, this is - mostly - from those new to the path, the rebellious youngsters (such as myself not too long ago) who were lead to believe that (assuming they didn't come from the Bible Belt) all Christians were after them, as evil as they really are, by authors such as $RW. I do realize that some Pagans really do have troubles with members of the Christian religion -- but that doesn't represent the entire population.

Saying that an entire religion is made up of Fundamentalists is ignorant and unfair. Do some research before coming to any conclusions. 3nodding  

[Rakei]

Atma311

Rakei

I don't bash I simply educate. I do not wish to have intolorant Christians use the Bible against me in anyway shape or form, I can't stand it when christians start telling me I'm going to hell and that they aren't because they haven't sinned Well guess again sin is born from sin and exists in every human, meaning you will never be able to come to heaven. Therfore I do not like this sin thing.
and yes of course there are fundamentalists in every religion one actually exists only with fundamentalists (I'm talking Islam) and Christian fundamentalists might not be a new thing, but now there are more and they think they know all that is.
Why the Christians? Because they seem to be the only religion that gets in our face.

now I have nothing more to say.

I disagree with the comment about all Islams are fundamentalists. I know a few friends who do practice those paths and they aren't fundamentalists at all. The fact that you've heard constant remarks like that since 9/11 doesn't make them true. This is how intolerance is spread in the first place. The generalizations and harsh (even if joking) comments about others that are "not like me" stick in people's minds and are often accepted as truth. It's the whole "Jews are whiny, Pagans are New Age Hippies, Christians are bossy" garbage that people actually believe after hearing it enough.

Thank you both for undermining a book from 1988 with the title: A Basic book on Religion and Life views(poorly translated from danish). Islams (Muslims?) are all fundametalists they follow the Coran down to the last detail and that is the only true way of islam.

No one shall tell me I'm ignorant I believe what I read in books that I know as a fact are right esspecially if they are from pulishing firms. (dunno If US has such books) I don't make conclusions before I have researched and found all there is. for example; Religion as far as I can conclude is a individual thing that springs up in everyone therefore everyone has different opinions on how to look at a religion. That is a conclusion. Another one: in any case scenario you can't have a world without religion because it will always be there and has always been there, it brings peace in a stressful world security about death.
That was conclusions  

[The Wallaby]

Ecumenicism. I adore that word, if I'm using it properly. Accepting all religions as correct. But when people start critisizing me on my beliefs, and when my grades start slipping because my teacher is Christian and doesn't agree with the essay I write, I've got a problem with it. Not all of them are "bad", just the ones who hate me before they know me. Or if they say I woship rocks.  

[Atma311]

Rakei

Atma311

Rakei

I don't bash I simply educate. I do not wish to have intolorant Christians use the Bible against me in anyway shape or form, I can't stand it when christians start telling me I'm going to hell and that they aren't because they haven't sinned Well guess again sin is born from sin and exists in every human, meaning you will never be able to come to heaven. Therfore I do not like this sin thing.
and yes of course there are fundamentalists in every religion one actually exists only with fundamentalists (I'm talking Islam) and Christian fundamentalists might not be a new thing, but now there are more and they think they know all that is.
Why the Christians? Because they seem to be the only religion that gets in our face.

now I have nothing more to say.

I disagree with the comment about all Islams are fundamentalists. I know a few friends who do practice those paths and they aren't fundamentalists at all. The fact that you've heard constant remarks like that since 9/11 doesn't make them true. This is how intolerance is spread in the first place. The generalizations and harsh (even if joking) comments about others that are "not like me" stick in people's minds and are often accepted as truth. It's the whole "Jews are whiny, Pagans are New Age Hippies, Christians are bossy" garbage that people actually believe after hearing it enough.

Thank you both for undermining a book from 1988 with the title: A Basic book on Religion and Life views(poorly translated from danish). Islams (Muslims?) are all fundametalists they follow the Coran down to the last detail and that is the only true way of islam.

No one shall tell me I'm ignorant I believe what I read in books that I know as a fact are right esspecially if they are from pulishing firms. (dunno If US has such books) I don't make conclusions before I have researched and found all there is. for example; Religion as far as I can conclude is a individual thing that springs up in everyone therefore everyone has different opinions on how to look at a religion. That is a conclusion. Another one: in any case scenario you can't have a world without religion because it will always be there and has always been there, it brings peace in a stressful world security about death.
That was conclusions

Hmm... maybe we have different definitions on "fundamentalism." When you say someone is fundamentalist, I think you mean they are completely intolerant of others' beliefs and unwilling to think anything other than their religion could be right. I know that isn't the case with many Islamic/Muslim people I know. Maybe you mean something different when you say "fundamentalism." I don't know what your definition is.  

[Keistera]

From Dictionary.com:

Quote:

A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

I tend to view Fundamentalist Christians as those that take the bible literally, and attempt to convert members of other religions at every turn.

Also, I tend not to trust just one book. Doing so has bitten me in the arse on several occasions. No offense, but this is my experience -- and, that book is 17 years old. I don't wish to start an argument here. If at all possible, i'd like to stick to the topic fo this post.

Please?  

[Rakei]

Keistera

From Dictionary.com:

Quote:

A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

I tend to view Fundamentalist Christians as those that take the bible literally, and attempt to convert members of other religions at every turn.

Also, I tend not to trust just one book. Doing so has bitten me in the arse on several occasions. No offense, but this is my experience -- and, that book is 17 years old. I don't wish to start an argument here. If at all possible, i'd like to stick to the topic fo this post.

Please?

I think that Fundametalism in english has a completely different meaning than the one I know from danish. In danish it just means what it says: Fundament = the foundment of a building, a religion.  

[Elven Prince CJ]

I don't judge people on a religion. If they tell me I'm going to hell for liking Harry potter that tends to make me laugh at them. Just some of them in general act that way. There are stereyotypes for every religion. Pagans are seen as animal rights, teree hugging people who worship rocks. thats what one girl online said when she asked but isn't that pagan? So in general there are always going to be steryotypes and theres not much that can be done about them except treat all people the same and don't profile people from thier religion.  

[The Bookwyrm]

I think we've inadvertantly hit the nail on the head in this topic, but we haven't actually come out and said it yet. The root of the problem for Christian bashing, to me at any rate, would be that new Pagans and Wiccans aren't questioning what they're reading. Where such a large majority of new Pagans are so young, and some of the books that are so readily available are horribly biased (and the trend I know I've observed among young Pagans in my area is that they read one book SRW and think they're full-fledged Wiccans), they don't questiont he motives of an author. It's been published, therefore it must be true.

One thing that's needed is some form of guidance. I work in a New Age/Pagan shop (or used to until I picked up a new job at school!) and one of my jobs there, more often than not, is to reccomend books for people who really aren't sure who or what they should be reading. Resources like that, expereinced resources, would be a real bonus, even if they aren't exactly feasable in most samll communities. But that's where a healthy dose of scepticism and the online community can come in handy. Common sense dictates that an online community of WIccans ranging in age from seven to fifteen is probably not your best source for information. Don't blow them off, but don't take everything as gospel, either.

There's no real way to combat the teenage anghst that leads to a lot of Christian bashing, either, except with patience. The teenage years are turbulent and troublesome, and I'm yet not so far removed as to not remember what it was like. You're trying to find where you fit into things, and being either a closet Pagan, Super Witch screaming fromt he mountain tops, or anything in between, there are diffuculties. You're either harassed and tormented for being what you are, or you're too sacred/uncomfortable to express it, and the most convenient scapegoat would be Christianity in general, especially thanks to misinformation. And the fact that they comprise the world's largest religion, so they're everywhere. Most people move away from this after reading a bit more, and after getting a bit older.