Slightly Touchy...

[[[Ninja Sammich Saka]]]

Abortion. I just love to bring this up, because then all hell breaks loose. I personally think that it should be outlawed in a vast majority of cases. IF YOU WERE MATURE ENOUHG TO HAVE SEX, YOU SHOULD BE MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHILD.

In the cases of rape of those detrimental to the mother's health however, abortion should be allowed if it is desired.  

[Goddess_of_lint]

I think people should be allowed to choose if they want an abortion or not.
If I fell pregnant now or anytime in the future, sure I'd be using contraception at the time but I would have an abortion and I'm not ashamed of it.
People who have abortions are not all sleazy teenagers who can't control themselves or rape cases. In reality people have to make a conscious decision if they would be capable to bring up a child and give that child a life worth living and this giving it up for adoption is nonsense, because then you get attached.
My Mum got pregnant when she was seventeen and always regretted not being able to do things with her life and all of her kids have always felt guilty about that - your hang ups are inherited by your children.
So yeah - I'm Pro-choice...  

[[Onigiri]]

Saka_Kazima, I agree with you. Abortions should only be used in extreme cases, such as the mother's life is in jeopardy or with rape cases and such.

I find adoption not to be nonsense. If you, as a responsible person, say to yourself that through your own actions you've become pregnant, then you have to make the decision to either take care of the child or give it to someone else who can take of him/her. If you decide you can't take care of the child, then giving it up for adoption is the logical step. If you realize you cannot take care of the child, there's no getting attached. You give birth to the baby and give it to a waiting couple who will be able to take care of it. And that's also not to say that you can never go see the child again. Adoption agencies set it up, so that if you do, in the future, want to visit your child they'll find parents that'll allow that.

I'd like, someone, to answer a question for me that I haven't understood and would like some input from someone who has the opposite view from me. Why, besides the obvious reasons, are you Pro-Choice when having an abortion causes you to kill a human being? Inside of you is a living, breathing, thinking child and you would allow someone to operate and take out that unborn child and let it die before it got a chance to live? I just don't understand why you would want to commit murder, just to save yourself from having to give birth.

And the excuse that you can't take care of it, is not good enough. You can just as easily give it up for adoption to people who can take care of it. So what's the reason you would have an abortion unless it was extremely detrimental to your own life or in the case of rape?

 

[LimeyFish8]

Almost everyone has very strong opinions on abortion. Quite frankly I think that unless its your body and your pregnancy you don't have the right to say wether or not it can be terminated. Unless the issue directly applies, it is very hard to support one side or the other in a vehmently competant way. Also, for the sake of health and safety issues, it is necessary to keep abortion legal. Personal, religious and ideologic ideas need to be set aside in the rendering of such discisions, which is why the government has done what it has. The oppinions of the many cannot out weigh the rights of the few and vice versa.  

[[Onigiri]]

LimeyFish

Almost everyone has very strong opinions on abortion. Quite frankly I think that unless its your body and your pregnancy you don't have the right to say wether or not it can be terminated. Unless the issue directly applies, it is very hard to support one side or the other in a vehmently competant way. Also, for the sake of health and safety issues, it is necessary to keep abortion legal. Personal, religious and ideologic ideas need to be set aside in the rendering of such discisions, which is why the government has done what it has. The oppinions of the many cannot out weigh the rights of the few and vice versa.

But with an abortion, there isn't just the matter of your own body, but that of the child. I understand, under certain circumstances, abortions need to happen, because of a complication that endangering the life of the mother and the child and it's better to have one survive then both die. But with technology today, a complication to that degree rarely happens that it cannot be solved through some other means.

Personal, religious and ideologic ideas, though, are often what most people make their decisions on. From those who are against abortion to those who are pro-choice, often their own feelings and what they believe and has been taught to them makes up the majority of their decisions and stand points. It's hard not to have these things effect our thinking.

 

[LimeyFish8]

[Onigiri]

LimeyFish

Almost everyone has very strong opinions on abortion. Quite frankly I think that unless its your body and your pregnancy you don't have the right to say wether or not it can be terminated. Unless the issue directly applies, it is very hard to support one side or the other in a vehmently competant way. Also, for the sake of health and safety issues, it is necessary to keep abortion legal. Personal, religious and ideologic ideas need to be set aside in the rendering of such discisions, which is why the government has done what it has. The oppinions of the many cannot out weigh the rights of the few and vice versa.

But with an abortion, there isn't just the matter of your own body, but that of the child. I understand, under certain circumstances, abortions need to happen, because of a complication that endangering the life of the mother and the child and it's better to have one survive then both die. But with technology today, a complication to that degree rarely happens that it cannot be solved through some other means.

Personal, religious and ideologic ideas, though, are often what most people make their decisions on. From those who are against abortion to those who are pro-choice, often their own feelings and what they believe and has been taught to them makes up the majority of their decisions and stand points. It's hard not to have these things effect our thinking.

Under the current supreme court ruling (Roe v. Wade) their is a determined point in time where it is illigal to terminate the pregnancy. Often times, children who should be aborted, whose parents cannot support them, are not and as a result of this their lives are horrible instances of drug addiction, abuse and over all neglect. These cases just cause more problems and an abortion would prevent such unnecassary pain.
Political ideology is a difficult concept to master. The fact that politicians have difficulty removing themselves from their other ideologies is a testament to the terrible place our government has reached. It is quite sad that people elect politicians based on their party and their status, maybe if people would wise up, take the voting power away from the elderly and pick competant politicians we would not have such large schisms in our society and nation.  

[Treya Ochiern]

(>^_^)>o(.__.o)

As an ex-fetus who almost got aborted, I do not support abortion.

However, I think the conscience of killing your own baby is enough for the women who have gone through abortion.
Post abortion depression can really make people smarten up.

♪ Jaejoong: We poked jellyfish at the beach. ₪

 

[[Onigiri]]

Treya Ochiern

(>^_^)>o(.__.o)

As an ex-fetus who almost got aborted, I do not support abortion.

However, I think the conscience of killing your own baby is enough for the women who have gone through abortion.
Post abortion depression can really make people smarten up.

♪ Jaejoong: We poked jellyfish at the beach. ₪

I've also heard cases where they're forced by parents or their lover to have an abortion as well. So I know it's not always something the mother wants to do.

LimeyFish@: Well, if the mother is using while having the child then it'll be a crack baby and they don't always live past the first few weeks when they're born, especially if the mother continues to take drugs during the all the stages of her pregnency. I also forget about the point in time where abortion does become illegal. I'd like to know the exact time though, since that is, I admit, something I don't know.

But, yet again my thoughts often decide my view point, how I see it, as soon as conception happens, it becomes something living. I know, scientifically, that might not be the case, but that is the starting point of the human life beginning and I believe that shouldn't be tampered with.

 

[Ponworxz]

Well, hello.. Ever thought of the Condom breaking?

 

[CainZeros]

If the parents don't feel they are ready then they should have the choice. Like lint said, you might get attached and not be able to put the baby up for adoption. Then some people will not be able to deal with the strees and get negligent and the child's whole life goes to hell. Then there are those people who kill the baby after it's born and grown for a few years. The world ain't pretty and all hell could break loose at any moment. Sometimes it's for the best.  

[[.Riku.Diku.]]

In my opinion,[and in most cases, excluding rape] the mother made the choice. Therefore, she should have to live with the consequences.
If not, well....I do believe in adoption.
But really, the girl should not go around and not realize there is a risk involved with having sex.  

[Mrs Reaper]

I guess I would call myself Pro-Choice. I understand that it wouldn't be an easy decision to make, as Oni said, not only is it a human being but a part of you. But sometimes in life, and certianly to some women, abortion can be the only answer.

You seem to make putting a child up for adoption sound easy and painless for both partys, and I completely disagree with that view. If that child should find out 18 years later, it would suffer massive identity problems ("What are my roots?" "What is my heritage?" or even something as clinical as "Do I have a history of [Insert medical problem here] in my family?"). Imagine that child trying to find out who they are only to contact a mother who wants nothing to do with them. Imagine being that mother in 10 years time, when you start to regret the decisions you've made and try to contact, and in some cases, get your child back. You would destroy that family.

Anyway, back on topic. If I found myself in a position where I couldn't cope with a child in any circumstances I would consider an abortion. What Goddess_of_lint says is true to a degree, some women will get attached to that child just by delivering and holding it, I am one of those women. Of course there are some women out there that wouldn't feel that maternal urge and would have no qualms handing their child to a complete stranger and hoping that they bring him/her up properly.
At my current stage in life, if I were to get pregnant I would keep the child, as, with the aid of the government, I would be able to cope. I have no career and I am with a loving partner so my life would not be destroyed.

Basically what I'm trying to outline here, is that all of the three options avalible to a pregnant woman are tough to make. NONE of these are easy and simple decisions, they all carry both positive and negative consquences.
When you take abortion off the list of options you are destroying more lives than you are saving.

Please excuse some of my spelling mistakes, I hope they don't distract from my argument.

 

[[.Riku.Diku.]]

You do make a good point, Reaper. I'm just a little old-fashioned about abstinence and how it goes hand in hand with not getting pregnant, and not having to deal with it. 3nodding  

[LimeyFish8]

I agree with a lot of what Mrs Reaper said.
@ [Onigiri]:

Roe v. Wade Ruling

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician. Pp. 163, 164.
(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health. Pp. 163, 164.
(c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother. Pp. 163-164; 164-165.

I don't know if thats what you are looking for, but that is the regulation policy. Case law is a little difficult because lawers tend to use fairly flamboyant and impercievable language so that there is room for interpretation.  

[Higher_Than_You]

It's up to the parents of the child and no one has the right to tell them what to do.

I'd rather see something die before its life starts than see a couples lives get ruined and the child have to live a miserable poverty ridden life.