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FireonYce
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:32 pm


Ok many people I have met in my community have issues with professional people. For example A tarot Practicioner may feel so strongly that even if a relationship is crumbling at the seams they would still rely on thier cards before seeking a marriage counseler. People who find them selves deathly ill will still rely on healing Magic and ignore going to the doctor. These are just two examples i came up with. What i want to know is this. When do you draw the line between Magic help, and professional help? Some people i meet go to professionals the second they feel a problem, others will not budge in thier practices and continue with what they're doing. Others are inbetween with thier methods. This is somethin that I've been trying to word right for a discussion and i think i finally ironed it out enough to do so. So either post your method of drawing the line or a story of someone elses drawing that invisible line.




Me personally I rely on My own skills until I feel that the problem ha gone past me. I rely on my tarot skills extremley in deciding out my day now. Its taken me a while to get back to them after an issue but they have helped me allot. I however will use healing magic on myself if i think I need it. My body has a way of telling me if the healing is out of my reach. Like i knew when I had appendicitis ( this was before I found out what it was mind you) that I had to go to the hospital to get my appendix removed. For me if i feel its out of my league or better handled by a doctor I go. I just think its wierd that some people won't. =P
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:55 pm


My own technique is pretty simple: If it warrents the aid of a professional (councilor, doctor, law enforcement, etc.) or the direct appraoch of actually dealing with a person or problem, then I do that first and foremost and use magic as a supplement. If I'm ill, I see a doctor. It's that simple.

I could honestly tell horror stories from my experiences as a tarot reader... People who won't move or make a decision without consulting the cards... Who argue with a doctor's diagnosis based on what thier "fortune teller said." Some people are just stunned, and don't heed the warning that I give at the beginning of all of my readings: This is not set in stone; it changes, and this should not take the place of professional help.

I think my favorite scinarios, however, are the people who rely on magic, but never take the mundane steps necessary to help it: They do a money spell, but sit at home without looking for a job. They cast a spell to help them with their studies but don't crack a book, then have the nerve to wonder why they failed. I had a friend a few years ago ask me to cast a properity spell for him while he hunted for a job; he got no calls, and realized at the end of the summer that he had passed out resumees with no contact phone number.

As a general rule, I never substitute magic for something I can address through mundane means; I use it to give me a boost in the right direction, as a tool, and as it was intended to be used.

The Bookwyrm
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FireonYce
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:29 pm


Gypsy Blue
My own technique is pretty simple: If it warrents the aid of a professional (councilor, doctor, law enforcement, etc.) or the direct appraoch of actually dealing with a person or problem, then I do that first and foremost and use magic as a supplement. If I'm ill, I see a doctor. It's that simple.

I could honestly tell horror stories from my experiences as a tarot reader... People who won't move or make a decision without consulting the cards... Who argue with a doctor's diagnosis based on what thier "fortune teller said." Some people are just stunned, and don't heed the warning that I give at the beginning of all of my readings: This is not set in stone; it changes, and this should not take the place of professional help.

I think my favorite scinarios, however, are the people who rely on magic, but never take the mundane steps necessary to help it: They do a money spell, but sit at home without looking for a job. They cast a spell to help them with their studies but don't crack a book, then have the nerve to wonder why they failed. I had a friend a few years ago ask me to cast a properity spell for him while he hunted for a job; he got no calls, and realized at the end of the summer that he had passed out resumees with no contact phone number.

As a general rule, I never substitute magic for something I can address through mundane means; I use it to give me a boost in the right direction, as a tool, and as it was intended to be used.

I rarely do readings for the cooky ones anymore. =P had a pregnant lady asking what her child would grow up to be and starred at me and said shed kill it if it was going to ggrow up bad. Needless to say i said wonderfull things no matter what the cards said and never read for her type of person again. I just felt that if i refused that she would have hurt the baby she was carrying and yes I did make sure someone know she wasn't quite stable.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:54 pm


I rarely get sick, and when I do, it's migraines, so neither doctors nor magic really help me. Decisions, too, I normally make without consulting the cards. But going back to health. My aunt and stepmother have decided that standard medicine basicly poisons one's body, and have switched to going to an acupunturist and wearing crystals to balance their energy. While I think this is all well and good, and probably more reassuring than standard Western medicine, I will take drugs every time over homeopathic remedies, including magic.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:18 am


Ultimately, it's really every individual's decision about how to live their lives.

However, in my professional opinion, people who let themselves become slaves to certain routines (not making a decision without consulting their cards, their psychic, their horoscope etc etc) are impairing themselves. For some people, by "allowing" someone (or something) else to make their decisions for them, any negative fallout is not the responsibility of the individual. People make mistakes. We can be hurt. This is a part of life. But it can be a very scary part of life for some people.

As for homeopathic medicine...I'm all about it. I think people should at least look into alternative treatment for SOME ailments. It is my personal and professional opinion that many (not all) modern doctors tend to over-medicate their patients. However, if I were to find a lump in my breast, you can bet your broomsticks that I'm going right for an oncologist.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:24 am


Doctor ranks magic practitioner for me any day. They're proffessionals, and have got their craft down to a science, and sure as hell know a lot more about medecine than we do about magic. Magic I find is a hit-or-miss affair most of the times anyway.

Nihilistic Seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:08 pm


I prefer using combinations; at least, that's how I would like to work. As we, ourselves, work on multiple levels - physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual - why shouldn't we do the same with how we heal, and even go about our lives?

In a more detailed example, when I'm older, not only am I going to take my kids to the doctor, but I'll also look into alternative healing and spells. Of course, I'll be sure not to overdose anything. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:04 pm


Christo Minaverus

I rarely do readings for the cooky ones anymore. =P had a pregnant lady asking what her child would grow up to be and starred at me and said shed kill it if it was going to ggrow up bad. Needless to say i said wonderfull things no matter what the cards said and never read for her type of person again. I just felt that if i refused that she would have hurt the baby she was carrying and yes I did make sure someone know she wasn't quite stable.


I do the same; once they reveal themselves to be one of the crazies, I will not read for them again. It's too much on my head if I do, because they're not good for me mentally, and I'm certainly no thelping them at all.

Quote:
As for homeopathic medicine...I'm all about it. I think people should at least look into alternative treatment for SOME ailments. It is my personal and professional opinion that many (not all) modern doctors tend to over-medicate their patients. However, if I were to find a lump in my breast, you can bet your broomsticks that I'm going right for an oncologist.


Agreed; homeopathic maedicine has its virtues, and it works wonders on minor and less serious illnesses. I'd rather resort to that that couch syrup when I have a cold, but I'm definately going to walk, run, drive, or whatever I have to do to a doctor if there's something seriously wrong.

I have elbow injuries, caused my repetative strain at work, and I find magnetic therapy actually helps and it means I don't have to take harsh anti-inflamitory meds. Which is a definate bonus.

The Bookwyrm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:40 pm


Jameta
I prefer using combinations; at least, that's how I would like to work. As we, ourselves, work on multiple levels - physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual - why shouldn't we do the same with how we heal, and even go about our lives?

In a more detailed example, when I'm older, not only am I going to take my kids to the doctor, but I'll also look into alternative healing and spells. Of course, I'll be sure not to overdose anything. sweatdrop
...

Little Kiddie - Mama Jameta, I can't channel any more energy, my chakras are overloading! gonk

Jameta - scream Shut up and take it like a man! Heal damn you, heal!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:13 pm


Nihilistic Seraph
...

Little Kiddie - Mama Jameta, I can't channel any more energy, my chakras are overloading! gonk

Jameta - scream Shut up and take it like a man! Heal damn you, heal!

don't forget the whip crack at the end. surprised

FireonYce
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The Bookwyrm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:30 am


Now here's a conundrum for you around this topic: I have a relative, and he's just recently turned 18. For the past two years, he has been so sick that he has not been able to attend school, or anything else for that matter. His mother has been taking him to a homeopathic doctor for those two years, and his condition has not improved; his grandparents are very, very concerned for him, but they've been keeping the situation quiet. My cousin, at this point, refuses to see anyone but this homeopathic doctor.

My question(s) here are where should one be drawing the line with homeopathic remedies, and should the parents be considered negligable for not seeking further treatment son? It simply boggles my mind that for two years this child has been this sick, and they've never once considered taking him to a traditional doctor!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:21 pm


I would use any ressource available to me. Professional or magical... or both. As for drawing the line, I think I mostly rely on my intuition. However, I am often too stubborn to actually go see a professional, which is why I end up with permanently dislocated fingers XD(or something of the like...)

Gypsy Blue
My question(s) here are where should one be drawing the line with homeopathic remedies, and should the parents be considered negligable for not seeking further treatment son? It simply boggles my mind that for two years this child has been this sick, and they've never once considered taking him to a traditional doctor!


I think they were irresponsible to keep bringing their son to a supposed treatment which is clearly not working... Two years is a long time to realize that this treatment isn't helping. (If there were visible improvements, then it would be different, but that isn't the case...) Furthermore, this doctor seems just as irresponsable for not refering your cousin to another type of treatment. (Unless he did, and your cousin didn't want to?)

Though I'm not a strong believer in homeopathic remedies, I have seen it work wonders. If it works for you, then that's great. When it doesn't, try something else. (There is a quote that I really want to add in here, but it keeps disappearing into a puff of invisible smoke each time I try to remember it)

Esteloth


The Bookwyrm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:42 pm


Esteloth

I think they were irresponsible to keep bringing their son to a supposed treatment which is clearly not working... Two years is a long time to realize that this treatment isn't helping. (If there were visible improvements, then it would be different, but that isn't the case...) Furthermore, this doctor seems just as irresponsable for not refering your cousin to another type of treatment. (Unless he did, and your cousin didn't want to?)

Though I'm not a strong believer in homeopathic remedies, I have seen it work wonders. If it works for you, then that's great. When it doesn't, try something else. (There is a quote that I really want to add in here, but it keeps disappearing into a puff of invisible smoke each time I try to remember it)


My cousin has only recently reached the age where he can legally refuse threatment; until then it was the decision of his parents, more specifically his mother, and she hasn't had the foresight to realize that perhaps alternative measures needed to be taken. I have no idea right now whether it was recomded that they seek other help, I simply know that the mother refused to seek anything else, which I agree was completely irresponcible, and now her son will not accept any other treatment.

By no means am I trying to discourage homeopathic medicine; I know people who have used it responcibly and it's done great things. But the key is being responcible with it, and being able to back away when it doesn't work.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:45 pm


Gypsy Blue
By no means am I trying to discourage homeopathic medicine; I know people who have used it responcibly and it's done great things. But the key is being responcible with it, and being able to back away when it doesn't work.


Agreed. And I really hope your cousin will see that too.

Esteloth


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:12 am


There have been court cases similiar to this. There was one where a family of Jehovah's Witnesses let their daughter die because she needed a blood transfusion, but transfusions go against their religious beliefs. So the case got into the whole seperation of Church and State debate. Were they irresponsible or were they doing what they believed was right (If it's God's will that she should die, then who are we to thwart his plan?) or something like that. I don't remember how that case turned out.

From my perspective, if my child was sick, I'd do anything I could to help them. However, my beliefs would not prevent me from seeking any kind of medical treatment.

At 18, your cousin can now seek his own treatment. I don't think the state can step in and do anything, now that he's legally an adult.
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