Putting the "Neo" Into Paganism

[Starlock]

[this topic has been posted at another guild around here, but I figure I might get a few more unique responses here]

It has been said by some scholars, that we all here are more appropriately called 'Neopagans' rather than 'Pagans.' In the eyes of academia, Paganism typically refers to ancient polytheistic religious practices. Some scholars include religions not normally reffered to as "Pagan" in this definition (such as Chinese folk practice, Native American religions, Shinto, and Hinduism). Neopagans on the other hand, are modern reconstructions of ancient polytheistic religions which have a strong focus on Nature. Setting aside, for a moment, the various inadequacies of these simplified definitions, is it appropriate for a Neopagan to refer to themselves as Pagan in light of other non-reconstructionalist practices? Why do many Neopagans call themselves "Pagans" instead of "Neopagans?" Should this be changed for the sake of clarity?  

[The Bookwyrm]

I think the core of the problem lies with traditionds that refuse to acknowledge that they are, inf act, reconstructionist faiths. Look at Wicca, and also look at the druidic tradition. While small sects of druids may have survived into modern times, they were certainly never large enough to produce what we see today, and many of their practices were lost along the way, as was their lore because sacred information was not recodred as a matter of security. And then there's Gardner in the 1950's claiming that the new movement he's created actually comes from an ancient cult. Part of the method for gaining credability as a NeoPagan movement lies in lineage, and tha fartehr back you can trace that, the more "authentic" your practices and beliefs, the better some people believe it makes them.

Another part is sheer laziness; it's a whole lot simple to tell someone that you're a Pagan, and they immediately know what you mean, than to take the millasecond longer, add "Neo" to the front of the term, and have your companion stare at you blankly. Then, my favorite question follows: "What's a NeoPagan?" And if you were taken lightly by people for simply being Pagan, it'll be even worse when you're dealing with the ignorant and they find out your movement is "new". NeoPaganism falls into line with the "New Age" ideal with many people, despite the fact that they're entirely different, and people aren't generally open minded int hat direction.

While I think academically speaking it would be more politically correct to refer to ourselves as "NeoPagans", I wouldn't call it a necessity. Are Portestants or Jehovah's Witnesses NeoChristians? I prefer to think of calling myself a Pagan in simply honouring the ancient roots at the heart of my practice.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

I think it more depends on who your dealing with. By some definitions of the word pagan, those that follow a Neo-Pagan path can call themselves pagan and still get by on it. The fact that there's the word "Neo-Pagan" is something people might choose to ignore out of lazyness (I included xd ), not merely for speech, but also for having to explain to people.

That and I get Matrix flash-backs when I say "Neo-Pagan"  

[The Bookwyrm]

Nihilistic Seraph

I think it more depends on who your dealing with. By some definitions of the word pagan, those that follow a Neo-Pagan path can call themselves pagan and still get by on it. The fact that there's the word "Neo-Pagan" is something people might choose to ignore out of lazyness (I included xd ), not merely for speech, but also for having to explain to people.

That and I get Matrix flash-backs when I say "Neo-Pagan"

There is no spoon... ninja  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Gypsy Blue

Nihilistic Seraph

I think it more depends on who your dealing with. By some definitions of the word pagan, those that follow a Neo-Pagan path can call themselves pagan and still get by on it. The fact that there's the word "Neo-Pagan" is something people might choose to ignore out of lazyness (I included xd ), not merely for speech, but also for having to explain to people.

That and I get Matrix flash-backs when I say "Neo-Pagan"

There is no spoon... ninja

Is there a fork at least?  

[Starlock]

Nihilistic Seraph

Gypsy Blue

Nihilistic Seraph

I think it more depends on who your dealing with. By some definitions of the word pagan, those that follow a Neo-Pagan path can call themselves pagan and still get by on it. The fact that there's the word "Neo-Pagan" is something people might choose to ignore out of lazyness (I included xd ), not merely for speech, but also for having to explain to people.

That and I get Matrix flash-backs when I say "Neo-Pagan"

There is no spoon... ninja

Is there a fork at least?

Nope. Just chopsticks. xd

Anyway, Gypsy, you made a comment earlier about the Neopagan and New Age movements being very distinct from one another, but I'm not sure that's the case. Can't it be said that the Neopagan movement is a subsection of the New Age movement? I checked out a book recently on the American Neopagan and New Age movements; I haven't gotten far into it but it'll be making some researched comparissons between the movements. Maybe when I get further into it I'll start a thread on the topic.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Starlock

Anyway, Gypsy, you made a comment earlier about the Neopagan and New Age movements being very distinct from one another, but I'm not sure that's the case. Can't it be said that the Neopagan movement is a subsection of the New Age movement? I checked out a book recently on the American Neopagan and New Age movements; I haven't gotten far into it but it'll be making some researched comparissons between the movements. Maybe when I get further into it I'll start a thread on the topic.

Technically, yes. Or rather, the New Age movement is a subsection of the NeoPagan; the New Age movement borrows heavily from many religious systems, practices and what not, but lacks the substance that the religions had. Take working with crystals, for example. Both the NeoPagan and New Age movements believe that crystals carry energy and can be used to manifest a desire, to heal, to b anish, etc. The NeoPagan movement recognizes the work of the divine Earth; whether you want to call it the Goddess or whatever else, there's a higher power at work behind it. The New Age movement, on just ageneral basis, doesn't view it like that. They simply see the stones as a source of power and nothing beyond it. Many people that get accused of being "fluffy" in Paganism have a strong New Age influence on their Craft.

I used to think that the two were one and the same, too, but I had a prof once who adressed the issue; he said that NeoPagans were more inclined towards spirituality, where as the New Age movement was more inclined towards mysticism.  

[Guitarhero356]

Gypsy Blue

Nihilistic Seraph

I think it more depends on who your dealing with. By some definitions of the word pagan, those that follow a Neo-Pagan path can call themselves pagan and still get by on it. The fact that there's the word "Neo-Pagan" is something people might choose to ignore out of lazyness (I included xd ), not merely for speech, but also for having to explain to people.

That and I get Matrix flash-backs when I say "Neo-Pagan"

There is no spoon... ninja

Sure there is! *starts eating cereal with sppon*  

[Lila Malvae]

I agree, there is a tendency to bundle those who actually call themselves Neopagans into the new age movement. Technically, it's true, but I still don't feel that it's right to classify onesself as that. I'm not worshipping new gods, I'm just praising them in different ways. I feel more comfortable classifying myself as Pagan than the alternative. I have a tendancy to wrinkle my face when thinking of myself that way. My own preconceptions, I know... and it's wrong, but I can't shake it for some reason.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

LilaMalvae

I agree, there is a tendency to bundle those who actually call themselves Neopagans into the new age movement. Technically, it's true, but I still don't feel that it's right to classify onesself as that. I'm not worshipping new gods, I'm just praising them in different ways. I feel more comfortable classifying myself as Pagan than the alternative. I have a tendancy to wrinkle my face when thinking of myself that way. My own preconceptions, I know... and it's wrong, but I can't shake it for some reason.

Well, technically, we are. We're worshipping the sides of the deities that history let slide through the cracks. For all we know, myths that could change our views on everything were not passed down.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Nihilistic Seraph

Well, technically, we are. We're worshipping the sides of the deities that history let slide through the cracks. For all we know, myths that could change our views on everything were not passed down.

We also have to contend with the authenticity of some of those myths; depending on the pantheon you're attempting to work with, some have under gone very heavy influence from other cultures, either through trade or conquest. Just as a simple example I'm familiar with, the Celtic myths and legends we have today have many shared stories with Scandinavian mmyth; researchers are unsure which culture influenced the other or what the original content actually was. Then, when the sagas were written down for the first time, they were recorded by Christian monks who Christianized the stories; a prime example is you have St. Patrick showing up in Irish stories concerning Fionn MacCumhaill's Fianna.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Then we also have Brigid turning into St. Brigit.  

[The Bookwyrm]

Nihilistic Seraph

Then we also have Brigid turning into St. Brigit.

Not all of the changes have been bad; it's nice to see a Pagan god or goddess turned into a Christian saint once in a while, but it still changes the story, drastically. Imagine going from being a warrior goddess, goddess of the forge and flame and creativity, to the foster mother of Christ. Just doesn't carry the same kind of umph.  

[Lila Malvae]

Well, I do have to say that even though we might not know all the correct information about them, it manifests when we worship and ask for assistance.
For example, I made some Brighid candles intended for protection purposes... and when I burned them, I had the strongest urge to clean house the next day. Then weeks later I was going to write what I did for the candles, and I made the connection and remembered something I must have forgotten a long time ago... that Brighid also lends a hand with hearth and home.
So even as we relive some of the old ways we've discovered, some of them come to us, and some of them we make up, I'm sure... I don't see why it's relevent except to historians. I'm sure they'll come up with another term for us in fifty years.  

[The Bookwyrm]

I think you've already explained why it's relevant: association. You need to know the historical associations of a god or goddess in order for your rituals or spells to work. Yes, we sometimes find new areas by accident when working with a god or goddess, but honestly, do you really think you're going to get great results just randomly assigning tasks to them?

I could manifest and work with Aphrodite when studying for a math test and ask for help in my studies, if traditional associations don't matter. But they do, because odds are, Aphrodite can't give me much of a boost in academics. I might get turned on by long division or find a way to seduce my math teacher into giving me a better mark, but that's not going to help my math skills, is it?

Having at least half an idea of what a diety rules over lends direction so that we can find other associated fields, so we can make up new rituals and the like. But we need some direction first. That's where history comes in, that's where it's helpful, and it's relivant to more than just historials: Religious scholars, folkloreists, archeologists and anthropologists, and the (Neo)Pagan community. Existing mythology enriches ritual and our understanding of the gods; it explains and reveals their personalities and demonstrates their areas of expertise. There are also groups out there claiming lineage that's been unbroken since time immorable; for the sake of their own practice, and as a source of distinction, information becomes very important.

If we're simply going to invent areas that a god or a goddess is going to be able to help us in, why are we even resorting to the old gods? Why not simply invent new pantheons if the history doesn't matter? As for us having a new name inf 50 years, I doubt it. Our movement has a name now, embraced by both scholars and memebers of the movement, so unless we fall apart, or some drastic change takes place, we'll remain NeoPagans just as Christians have remained Christians.