Can I just Worship Nature??

[born2rock16]

Hi. I am lost in the belief area of my life right now, but know I'm not christian. I'm agnostic now, and sometimes feel like I'm just weird because I don't know for sure about anything. I know little about peganism.... that it involves nature, and sometimes magik, but I really want to know more. I'm thinking about maybe converting, and when I asked someone they said something about main beliefs, and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what these main beliefs are... ? I heard about peganism from family, & school, but that was basically just that there are multiple gods involved. What are these gods as well....... can they be somehow defined ? is it like the wind os a god, or is it a figure that you worship?


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I mean, there's more than one god to choose from, and you can worship like to goddesses and one god, or whatever right??

ok, and Wiccan.....I really feel it's right for me, but is there any way to tell?

Can I initiate myself and commit myself to wiccan before I study it for a year and one day?? Can Anyone help me with one of these rituals? like basic needs and stuff..... ? neutral

I'm so confusled.......

Please help......with any one of the questions......Please?! sweatdrop xd neutral confused  

[Jezehbelle]

Paganism is an umbrella term for a plethora of various religions.

Some worship multiple Gods and Goddesses, others just worship a Goddess (or God, but I see Goddesses more often), others worship a divine female and a divine male, other's don't directly worship any diety, or even really recognize a diety of any kind, but a certain spirit or energy to everything, and so on and so forth.

They can be from any pantheon, if your ecclectic, or just one specific pantheon that you're closest to. For example, if you worked with an Egyptian pantheon, you might worship/work with Bast, Osiris or Anubis. If you were more eclectic, you might work with/worship Itzamna, Thoth and Artemis, for example.

All I can say for major beliefs as an overall thing is that we're generally naturebased. Every smaller branch has it's own customs and beliefs, but yeah... sweatdrop Even then, with technopagans, I'm not sure being earth-based is an overall main belief.  

[MsAmberly]

born2rock16

Hi. I am lost in the belief area of my life right now, but know I'm not christian. I'm agnostic now, and sometimes feel like I'm just weird because I don't know for sure about anything. I know little about peganism.... that it involves nature, and sometimes magik, but I really want to know more. I'm thinking about maybe converting, and when I asked someone they said something about main beliefs, and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what these main beliefs are... ? I heard about peganism from family, & school, but that was basically just that there are multiple gods involved. What are these gods as well....... can they be somehow defined ? is it like the wind os a god, or is it a figure that you worship?

I have been at this for about 16 years now. I started with Wicca and spent the first 5 or 6 years trying hard to follow all the trappings, choosing deities, full circle casting, the works. I didn't have a mentor or group, just me and a boatload of books. As hard as I tried I just couldn't get past the deity thing. So I just dropped that.

Now I still consider myself pagan, and though I don't worship anything per se, I do recognize and honor my ancestors, guardians, other levels of beings that I haven't delved into deep enough to come to any conclusion on... but consider them more companions or wanderers accordingly. I try to understand nature and it's inner workings without interfearing if I can manage that. It needs no help from me, just respect and honorible treatment.

I don't know if that helps you or not but I would continue studies on deities and cultures from all over to see if anything else speaks to you anyway, just in case. Also look into psychology, Archtypes.  

[Starlock]

First I've got a questions for you so I can better help you out.

Why are you Agnostic? What characteristic or idea about deities is it that you have trouble with?

Deity is rather complex in Neopagan faiths. Neopagans tend to conceptualize (but not limited to) deity in a manner that is polytheistic, pantheistic, and animistic in nature.

Animism, at base, is simply the belief that there is spirit in all things, similar to the Japanese Shinto beliefs about spirits that inhabit particular trees, rocks, or bodies of water.

Pantheism is the belief that the divine is immanent rather than transcendent; the divine fully penetrates the physical world and its not seperate from it.

Polytheism means that the divine has multiple manifestations, not just one. Usually though, even within polytheistic religions there is still some overarching unity involved such as fate or a philosophy that "all Gods are one God."

Neopaganism is not limited to these three though, but to avoid further complexity, let's leave it at this for now. Because of the immense diversity of views of the divine in Neopaganism, in essence you can ask yourself what *you* want the divine to be or how you personally see the divine and run with it. Alternately, you can choose to base your practice on an ancient Pagan pantheon that's already established such as the Greek pantheon or Egyptian pantheon.



As for other "main beliefs" of Neopaganism it is difficult to generalize beacuse there's so much diversity not only in how the divine is characterized but how practice is done. To make some generalizations that usually hold true though,

1) Neopaganism is Nature-centered. The degree varies, but nature is either honored and revered or deities are in some way embodiments or characterizations of natural forces.

2) Neopaganism is about sacredness. While other religions will teach you there's something fundamentally flawed about us or that the physical is an illusion/undesireable, Neopaganism tends to emphasize the intrinsic value of the world around us.

3) Neopaganism is about interconnectedness. Western philosophy has been marked by dualism and separation of things. Neopagans tend to break down convential black-white ways of looking at the world and instead see how we're all intimately connected on this beautiful globe called Earth.

4) Neopaganism is experiential. What I mean by this is that we don't take someone else's word for it; we experience things for ourselves and make up our own minds. Dogma is not the emphasis but rather seeking out answers for yourself.

There are some other generalizations I could make, but these are good enough and maybe some others could add to them.

If you're interested in persuing, the one book I'd recommend above others:

Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religion by Joyce and River Higginbotham

An absolute must-read book for general Neopagan practice. This book does what few others I have read even attempt: philosophy and theology. If you want a book with some actual meat in it; probing questions that will get you thinking about how you see the divine, magic, and the universe, this is a book you'll buy and return to again and again.  

[born2rock16]

Whay are you agnostic?

I just don't know. I don't think I have sufficiant enough proof to say that 'GOD' is how everything came about. I don't know maybe 'he' did make everything, but I don't have enough proof to full on worship him. I don't believe anything from the bible, and quite honestly, not meaning to offend anyone, I think it's all s**t. it's like Grimm's fairy tales, as some might put it.



What characteristic or idea about deities is it that you have trouble with?
I'm not quite sure. I just seem to find something I don't believe in all deities. everything that I hear seems to controdict everything else, and with so many Christian people, I just feel Unwelcomed, and out of place, because I can't believe like they do. I don't have a problem standing up for what I believe with Anyone, I just wish more people would listen and take into consideration what I believe like I do for them. I wish that I could just straighten everything out, and find what's right for me.



now, I can take what I want from the different deities in most pegan religions right? because if I can make it my own, I still take some things from my home, and Christianity, because i feel some things might be right, I can make this work, and I can commit, but if I have to be exact, and do everything "they" tell me to do, whomever 'they' are, I can't seem to bring myself to do it. it may seem selfish, but being the youngest in my family, and having my cousins live with me for times, and having everyone trying to help me, I'm getting tired of thinking about what they think. I don't care if they think it's wrong for me to be agnostic, or to become pegan, or wiccan, bcause that seems like an interesting and wonderful pegan religion. I don't care because I feel it's right, and I disagree with them, and I can't change that. sorry that's so long.

Thanks everyone for your help!!

I went to religioustolerance.org , and found some stuff on wiccan that interests me. But anything that you have is a big help.  

[Rioto_Kish]

Hey, I can understand what you're feeling...I'm new to this too.

In regards to main beliefs, it depends on what system you are referring to. As far as I am aware, most of the pagan religions hold respect for nature, do not condone the wilful harming of others, encourage the acknowledgement of the sabbats/equinoxes, etc. (If I am wrong, please correct me!) However, when it comes to more specific beliefs, such as in regards to the deities, then things start to differ.

I consider myself an eclectic pagan, so I don't know very much about Wicca, but from what I've read, I believe that Wiccans follow the Lord and Lady, or the God and Goddess. Other religions follow the deities of certain pantheons, for example: Kemetic Reconstructionalists could follow Bast, Thoth, Sekmet, Anubis, Ptah, etc, while a someone who is drawn to the Hellenic path may follow Hera, Apollo, Demeter, Zeus, etc. If you are eclectic, then you may follow a deity from one pantheon, and another deity from another pantheon. (Eg: someone may hold rites for Anubis in particular, but their patron could be Cerunnos)

In regards to initiating yourself into Wicca, I'm not sure if you can do it yourself. I've read some debates about this, where some believe that you can only call yourself Wiccan if you are initiated into a lineaged coven, whereas others have no qualms with a person following the Wiccan path alone. Personally, I think that if you believe in something, you have every right to follow it, but that is only my opinion, you need to decide for yourself.

Basic rituals? I would suggest writing your own (I think it was Starlock who first recommended to me that I write my own, as they are more personal and more effective than one generic rite) but if you are completely in the dark about how to go about starting, I recommend that you look up rituals and spells (from books and the net-there are quite a few good sites out there) to get a feel for how some people hold rituals, and then, by using what information you have and your idea in mind, write the ritual/spell down. Once you have performed it, writing about your experiences helps to clarify what you felt/saw/heard/etc, and helps you to understand your experience. (It may raise several questions, which will help you to learn more!)

Don't ever think that you must believe in something that someone says you should. Your beliefs are your own, and no one has any right to try and change them just because they don't fit with their own beliefs. In the end, if it feels right, follow it. If it doesn't work out, you will have learned something anyway and it may just help you to further work out your beliefs.

Sorry this is very long, and I hope that I've helped you in some way.  

[Jezehbelle]

With Paganism, there are so many choices of how you can connect with divinity/the universe, it's almost unreal.

Personally, I think you should dedicate yourself to Wicca instead of initiate yourself into Wicca. For the time being anyways, until you can find a good teacher or you feel the time is right or you find a good teacher/coven, the time is right and you're over the age of 18 and that you are sure you want to be Wiccan, being a dedicant might be the best way to go.

There are many paths and ways to go, even within Wicca there are different traditions, and you might want to explore into the different traditions before you go any further into initiation. In Garderian Wicca, there's a God and a Goddess, but the names aren't known until you are initiated into the coven. In Dianic Wicca, it's Goddess worship, and usually, the members are all female, either enforced or not. And there are many more traditions.

Everything else, what Rioto said. 3nodding  

[born2rock16]

Oh, ok. Thanks to both of you.
Rioto, ok, I'll try writing some of my own things. Thanks.
And Jezehbelle, ok, that does sound better, I don't want to get into it and then not be able to change if it isn't right.

Do you know if you're stuck with it? I wouldn't think so, but I don't know... ~


I don't mean to ask so many questions of so many people, but my family isn't exactly open about this from what I've seen so far.

Thanks everyone!! you've all helped me alot!!!! heart  

[Jezehbelle]

What's the issue with your family?

It's why I recommend knowing what you're getting into -- so, the longer you spend time thinking about it and learning about various traditions, inside and outside of Wicca (and Paganism -- take a comparitive religions class 3nodding if nothing else, you'll understand other people a little better), the more sure you'll be about it. 3nodding

But, since I'm not Wiccan, I can't say. sweatdrop  

[born2rock16]

Well, you see, they're normally pretty open about stuff, but they're all christian, and my imidiate family is catholic. When I asked my mom if she knew anything about paganism she acted like I was some sort of weirdo. One of my cousin's is pretty cool about it. I mean she doesn't have a set orthodox she believes in. She was in the military and went to church with lots of other girls that were different religions, and went to a wiccan meeting one time, so she's cool and talks with me and stuff, and my grams is cool about learning more about it, but my mom seems a little weirded out by it, and I haven't even mentioned it to my gramps....he was going to be a minister or w/e they are, and he's a little old fashioned....lol. Thanks for all your help though, I don't mean to be so curious, but I feel left out when it comes to talking aboutit with my family.

Do you think that maybe I could talk about it with my friends, and maybe we could research it together or something? I'm not really sure how they feel, but I just thought... neutral

Yeah, and I think you're right. I'll keep researching on it all.....wicca just kind of called me to it. but also celtic does the same. oh, ok, I didn't even think about a class. alright, thanks!!!  

[Starlock]

Apologies... I've been a bit gone lately for various reasons, but that'll shift again come next week perhaps.

born2rock16

Whay are you agnostic?
I don't think I have sufficiant enough proof to say that 'GOD' is how everything came about. I don't know maybe 'he' did make everything, but I don't have enough proof to full on worship him. I don't believe anything from the bible, and quite honestly, not meaning to offend anyone, I think it's all s**t. it's like Grimm's fairy tales, as some might put it.

That's where many people seem to have trouble. Proof. I can understand that. Since I've dived more into religion, though, I've seen that there are many, many kinds of proof and the kind that people nowadays often want is the very literal sort. This is unfortunate, since mythology was probably never meant to be taken with such literalness to begin with. Religion is a largely personal journey. Find the proofs that work for you and find what speaks to you. If a literal Bible interpretation doesn't make sense, don't use it. Interpret the sacred text for yourself and pull meaning out of it using your own brain power. Instead of asking "is this true" as "why is this story being told and what lessons are in it" and such. That holds true for the Bible or any other work of mythology.

born2rock16

What characteristic or idea about deities is it that you have trouble with?
I'm not quite sure. I just seem to find something I don't believe in all deities. everything that I hear seems to controdict everything else, and with so many Christian people, I just feel Unwelcomed, and out of place, because I can't believe like they do. I don't have a problem standing up for what I believe with Anyone, I just wish more people would listen and take into consideration what I believe like I do for them. I wish that I could just straighten everything out, and find what's right for me.

Finding what view of the divine works for you just takes work. That was a huge stickler point for me when I started as well; for the most part I was in the same position you find yourself in. Basically what I started doing (and this might help you too) is to look at various deity concepts and peg where I was okay with it and where I wasn't. More importantly, I asked myself WHY I agreed or disagreed with a particular concept. After I got some more basic theology under my belt, I realized that I could essentially construct the divine to suit my beliefs and practice, partly spurred by that book by the Higginsbotham's that I recommended.

All descriptions of the divine are just that... descriptions. They're not the divine itself. If I say, describe a pencil as being made of wood, graphite, metal and rubber yet others describe it as being yellow and others still describe it as being a writing instrument; is one of these descriptions more true than the other? Of course not. The divine works the same way; we're all really trying to describe the same thing, but no two people see the world the same way. Of course we're not going to describe a pencil the same way, much less something as abstract as the divine! Sometimes there will be contradiction in descriptions. Again, no two people see the world the same way so this is to be expected, right? Not sure if this helps at all, but I find it useful. whee

born2rock16

now, I can take what I want from the different deities in most pegan religions right? because if I can make it my own, I still take some things from my home, and Christianity, because i feel some things might be right, I can make this work, and I can commit, but if I have to be exact, and do everything "they" tell me to do, whomever 'they' are, I can't seem to bring myself to do it.

That would be Ecclecticism. Different people have different opinions on that in terms of what is and isn't appropriate. The way I see it though, religion is a personal journey. Use what works for you, but do be mindful of the feelings and beliefs of others.  

[born2rock16]

Oh, it's No problem really! I just thank you for writing back! oK...That did help...Thanks! I'm feeling rather conected with Wicca, but am going to be studying more stuff too. Thank you!!!!