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A catalog of my experiences as an employee and citizen of Gaia.
Week Ninety-One and Ninety-Two: Turkeytown
Thanksgiving, the time when we all get together and say thanks for vacation. I'm really happy to have a 4 day weekend, but before I go, I figured I'd drop a knowledge bomb on you all.

Gaians like to take a rumor and really, really run with it. It doesn't matter if there's evidence to support it, or if it even makes sense. It's just fun to have something to talk about, and I get that. Sometimes, though, those rumors live so long that they take on a certain verisimilitude, and users start to accept them as truth. So for this journal, I bring you:

Fleep's Top 5 Unsubstantiated Gaian Rumors and Assumptions

1. Gaia makes more than enough money. They're money-grubbing now!

My favorite thread on the subject:

Gaia Isn't Being Money Hungry

Though, QFE:

Lanzer
The cost to run 300 servers and keeping a team of more than 90 people working is very high. Imagine this, in San Jose the average pay is around 40,000 dollars to 50,000 dollars a year. Just multiply that by 90. eek There are much much more expenses in detail. All the equipment in the server room also raked up a 7 digit figure... Few websites face the challenge of having to serve up to 100,000 users at a time.

And we have more servers and employees now than shown in that quote.

Not to mention (relative costs are just estimates of mine, don't take them as any kind of definitive guide):
- The cost of office space ($$$$$$)
- Health insurance for employees ($$$$$$)
- Taxes ($$$$$)
- Bandwidth costs ($$$$)
- Computers and software licenses for employees ($$$$)
- Conventions and airfare ($$$$)
- Misc costs ($$$$)
- Employee benefits ($$$)
- Various other software licensing ($$$)
- Recruiting ($$)
- The cost of office supplies ($$)
- Accounting ($$)
- Advertising ($$)
- Contractors ($$)
- Various legal fees for contests, contracts, ToS, etc. ($$)
- Contests ($)
- And many, many more

And all of these are recurring fees.

With every event we throw, Gaia breaks new user records -- and as the site grows, we need more servers, more staff, and the costs grow tremendously.

2. Gaia doesn't listen to its users

I was actually in an interview today when we were talking to a potential candidate. One of the interviewers, who hasn't been here as long as I have, told the candidate this (paraphrased):

"One of the things about Gaia that's unlike any other company I've worked for is how attentive they are to the needs of the community. We have a ton of people who are watching the forums all the time - and when users say they want something or they're unhappy about something, someone looks into it right away. I've never seen another community that was this big where the administrators cared this much about what users thought."

Which isn't to say things always get addressed or fixed right away - but many of us are extremely attentive and sensitive to user wishes and moods. Users commonly mistake not getting what they want for us not paying attention - but we do, and most of us get distressed when users are upset.

3. Quest System was just made to support sponsors

This is just plain not true. Quests, as originally indicated, were supposed to be one of the central fun features of Gaia. What DID happen, however, is that I began to lead sponsorships, events, and quests - and quests suffered for it. Gaia may seem big, but resources are extremely tight. Code has to be refactored and servers have to be reconfigured to support the ever growing load on the site, so our developers are busy 112% of the time (yes, we actually add time to the time-space continuum just to meet deadlines - or it seems that way, sometimes).

Events and sponsorships took precedence, because -- well, we can't NOT have events, and Gaia needs the money to stay running. So why not hire more people? We do - but the requirements of running this site are growing faster than we can find good talent to support it. It's a bad thing because we're tight on resources... but a great thing because Gaia's becoming quite popular!

4. New feature [XXX] gives out gold! Gaia doesn't care about inflation

One thing users need to learn to accept is that Gaia will make features that give out gold. We're not going to stop doing this.

The other thing users need to learn is that this will not destroy the economy.

Several reasons for this include:
1. A TREMENDOUS amount gold leaves the site every day from banned accounts and users who decide to stop using Gaia. That's gold and items that are taken OUT of the economy. It may be one of the bigger gold sinks on Gaia.

2. The amount of gold generated by this feature is pennies compared to the amount of gold that's generated just by millions of users just clicking around the site.

3. The number of users who engage the abuse of these systems is much, much smaller than mosts users assume.

We do incentives like this to benefit Gaians who choose to participate. It's unfortunate that this trends has cropped up causing people to say "Booooo!" rather than "Yaaaay!" when we give them free gold.

5. The 2% fee didn't do what it was created to do!

The common assumption is that the 2% fee was supposed to stop or slow inflation, which isn't really the point - at least not exactly. I'm going to refer you guys again to the SF Sticky on the subject:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/site-feedback/a-note-about-the-2-listing-fee-in-marketplace/t.31618999/

The basics:
1. It's supposed to perform a gold removal from marketplace transactions, just like how selling back to stores removes gold from the transaction

2. The listing fee cuts into more potential profit, making the returns on price manipulation (e.g., "artificial inflation" wink less attractive.

3. The 2% fee won't/wouldn't increase "inflation", because if sellers could increase their prices, there's no reason they wouldn't have before the fee. If their prices increased, and users became willing to pay it, then it's just a matter of what the market would bear - the 2% is irrelevant.

And QFE, for users who bandy around the popular term "inflation" when referring to the Gaia marketplace:

Quote:

Why do you keep using quotation marks when you say "Inflation"?

Not all prices rising are inflation.

Monthly collectibles, and event items, are in fixed quantity. And as more Gaians join, demand for these items is rising. Since prices in some sense represent value, we expect prices of old collectibles to rise. This is not "inflation", this is "real price increases". This is a good thing. Your inventory's true value increases over time, since more people want whatever you have.

In contrast to real price increases, inflation is when prices increases due to excess amount of currency flowing into an economy, faster than the rate in which goods and services are created. It is highly debatable whether this is good thing.

The new marketplace and the listing/ transaction fee, we are trying to balance the influence of the MP on the second type of price changes. It will have no influence on the first type of price increases.


Inflation is something we want, as long as it's happening at a reasonable rate. Even if you don't like it when you want to buy that MC, you DO want it when you want your MCs to increase in value.

Dayum Fleep, You Grumpy

It's 7:30 the day before Thanksgiving and I'm still in the office. You're dang tootin' I'm grumpy!

Actually, I just felt these are things that needed to be addressed - because they really do bother me. Not so much because users are complaining, but because I feel as though users are limiting each others' abilities to enjoy Gaia to its fullest with various misconceptions that float around.

I'm still the same chipper, good-natured, and slightly-mad Fleep you've grown used to. Just really tired at the moment rofl

The Meats
I'm going to go stuff myself with about 8 lbs of foodstuffs now. Everyone have a great holiday weekend!






User Comments: [73] Viewing page 2 of 2 · Goto Page: « 1 2  [add]
Toxic love bunny
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Thu Dec 06, 2007 @ 07:07pm
Eh I am only upset about getting in banned accounts soon... I hope this doesn't happen. stressed Thanks for clearing this up.


commentCommented on: Tue Dec 11, 2007 @ 09:33am
Umm, are you ok, Fleep? You usually don't go this long between updates.

I hope you are just busy and are not sick. But here's some cocoa and cookies from St. Lucia anyway. 3nodding



Chocobo Princess
Global Moderator
Edible Substance
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Sun Dec 16, 2007 @ 08:30am
Aw, Fleep, where be your entries of hilarity of wit?


commentCommented on: Fri Dec 28, 2007 @ 01:14am
Thanks, it gives the user a sense of how much money is really necessary to run gaia



Immortalcrystal95
Community Member
rainbowrider
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Fri Dec 28, 2007 @ 06:41am
Fleep, where are ya? HAven't heard from ya in while. Must be busy with all of the holiday stuff. Anyhow, hope that you had a good one anyway! Peace out..........


commentCommented on: Fri Dec 28, 2007 @ 10:04pm
Well gawrsh and here I was thinking that I spend real life money to make the site runners into millionares. xp

Not! I'm proud of the gaia admins, developers, artists, and other staff. I know they're always looking out for our best interests while making sure the site runs as smoothly as possible.

After all, who do people think fixed the bugs in the christmas event on THE VERY FIRST DAY? It certainly wasn't the users.

Sure I get pissed when stuff doesn't work. But it gets fixed quickly and that makes me happy.

Go Go Gaia Rangers! scream Rawr!



umikotheblueelf
Community Member
Candy Cane Bunny
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Mon Dec 31, 2007 @ 09:39am
How true. None the less. The -2% reduction fee sucks D: Anyway, keep up the good work. BTW; work on the battle system!


commentCommented on: Tue Jan 01, 2008 @ 07:17pm
Over a month with no Fleep?! Kusoooo!!



Spirrow
Community Member
a409
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Mon Jan 07, 2008 @ 12:58pm
You haven't posted any recent journals. I guess that's understandable with all the schtuff that's been going around Gaia.
I know you're a big part of the event team so I thought I might ask you this question.

Can I please please please have my orphan back? sad It made me so very sad when I kept one for myself but she then went poof as soon as the event ended.


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Photobucket editor is fuun :O
commentCommented on: Thu Jan 24, 2008 @ 09:48pm
$4,500,000 on staff a year? I think I can tolerate a few more sponsor quests now.



Xperian
Community Member
Demoire
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Sun Feb 24, 2008 @ 06:21am
Yay Fleep! cheese_whine


commentCommented on: Mon May 05, 2008 @ 11:22pm
I love you FLEEP. <3 You do a really great job!! Thanks!~



summa dat
Community Member
The Valkyrie Ryu
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Fri Jul 11, 2008 @ 05:24am
thank you!
this was very informative :3


commentCommented on: Sun Aug 03, 2008 @ 05:35am
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.....
I must admit, I inadvertently get swept up in the "OH NOES! New feature graw graw graw...Cash Shop graw graw garw..." which I always regret later.

But I really respect the effort the Gaia team put in to Gaia.
It's truly fanominal.
You guys listen to us, and though you may not always listen to what some thin you should, you lister, which is a damn site more them some other communities do <3

I first came to Gaia from Neopets and was so overcome by the level of interaction between staff and users, it was so starkle different to Neopets which would just go down without warning or explanation, where as Gaia would give warning if possible, and explain why it happens, even compensate users if the situation called.
And at the time Lanzer would often post the updates and announcements himself which really made me and I'm sure others feel very involved and welcome.
Needless to say, I moved here quite quickly >w<

Gaia has changed, enevatably, there are more people, and maybe Lanzer himself doesn't interact quite as much, but even he come tot he party for the Olympics (which was great) and so many of the staff like yourself are active and vocal in the forums. You all tell us whats happening and enjoy the site yourself.

I suppose what I'm saying is that so many of us really really do appreciate all the work and effort you guys put in, and you do do an incredible job.
It is unfortunate you guys get so much slack from people when most often it is really unfounded and down-right rude.

We do love you guys <3

PS
Made a lol just a little...the captcha for this post is "LIMITING tax"...xDDDDD

Anywho, don't know if you'll ever see this, I don't think there is an alert for journal replies, but I hope you do <3


OG 2005 Grombie underneath it all.
White Eye Stripe Tattoo, you are my saviour.


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The Archive!
An Open Resource of Gaia's Long History, in Images

Smeagi
Community Member
l ShishkaBerry l
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Fri Nov 28, 2008 @ 11:19pm
this should be stickied at the top of every part of the forum! 3nodding
now i dont feel so bad for spending 30 bucks on fortune eggs xd


commentCommented on: Fri Dec 05, 2008 @ 02:53am
Now if only people had the common sense to think of this themselves instead of whining. lol



Internet King Luftwaffle
Community Member
Kittea
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Fri Dec 19, 2008 @ 12:49am
Fleep... Do you need a hug?

*HUGS*


commentCommented on: Sun Jan 18, 2009 @ 08:51pm
This entry has changed my opinion of Gaia tremendously. Just yesterday I was complaining in another journal about the price of EIs in the cash shop. Now that I've read this however, I've realized just how much Gaia does listen to its users and try to make us happy. Most importantly, I understand the cost of this site is great enough that Evolving Items and Monthly Collectables are essential, and not money-making schemes.

Thank you for posting this. I'll feel much better about buying pixels next time I purchase a cash card, knowing that I'm helping Gaia and the employees that work hard on it every day.



Sky-Kat-Kaizoku
Community Member
hacked and banned lol
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Tue May 26, 2009 @ 11:44pm
does not like fleep.
plz star w/ hatemail .


commentCommented on: Fri May 29, 2009 @ 01:00am
Hey! I just wanted to say thanks for this. I've been back and forth on the money-hungry Gaia issue for a while. I'm still frustraighted that I have to pay for more things now, but its very understandable why. I'd always known running Gaia is expensive, but I'd never had an idea as to how expensive. So thanks. I'll try to spread the word. <3

And congrats on adding time to the time-space continuum. I'm sure a few science journals would like to publish an article on that. ^.^



GreerMerle
Community Member
CD-Shinigami
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Thu Aug 13, 2009 @ 02:52pm
WOW, I'm two years late. lol
Anyway I hope you ate well on Turkday.

BTW anyone that actually bothered to read the journal entry can add me.Just sa FLEEP. xD


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Help Me Achieve the Impossible? surprised
commentCommented on: Fri Aug 14, 2009 @ 06:32am
didn't know you were understaffed, i imagined there were many volunteers to help out (yup, naive)
this reminds me a bit about a french way of cooking a snail
you put the snail on a plate filled with salted milk
it starts to drink, but because the salt dehydrates it he has to drink more and more, until he can't anymore, and onto the frying pan (ouch)

so you need more and more money for ever-growing community of users, and a plethora of new things to keep things interesting, but because you are understaffed you are forced to ignore some of the mistakes and inconveniences that keep piling up
i would say this is unreliable foundation, as correcting an early mistake gets harder and harder as the time passes, there is more coding to account for, and so on, and there comes a time when people start thinking you don't care (i certainly did), and withdraw their support, but not necessarily presence and bandwith cost
growth for the sake of growth is an ideology of a cancer cell, i am certainly not in a position to understand or solve any of the long-term gaia problems, but i do see this train going off the tracks, sooner or later, i guess it just grew too big for it's own good



loof ehT
Community Member
Catalyste
Community Member
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commentCommented on: Tue Dec 22, 2009 @ 06:16am
Everytime someone complains about Gaia and the increasing cash items you guys have nowadays, compared to when you first started out, I break down the reality of the situation to these guys.

It seems that in their grand scheme to try to petition this site's ethics to take 10 steps back that they're not realizing that this is actually how Gaia pays it's bills and employees. It's nothing to do with greed.

So when I see someone complain about the free items they get from holiday/seasonal events, I ask them why they're complaining about a free item they get from a free event that's held on a free site and remind them that at least there are no subscription fees.

Some people forget how selfish they're being.


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User Comments: [73] Viewing page 2 of 2 · Goto Page: « 1 2  [add]
 
 
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